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Thermodynamics rules future orbital data centers

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Re: Thermodynamics rules future orbital data centers

#101

Post by Ekaros »

Zigurd wrote: post #27

Remember space manufacturing? When the first modules of ISS were launched 27 years ago, that was supposed to be the next big thing. Space manufacturing, asteroid mining, and space data centers are pipedreams. The capital equipment is too heavy, and 100% forever automated operations are not realistic.

Space manufacturing has always been fun one. It is like people have no understanding just how complex the supply chains for well anything we make these days are. Just look at COVID and hit on JIT.

Mining is also hard and harsh. One of the more hostile environments to operate for machinery. Lot of mechanical wear. And having that in space makes any maintenance extremely harder...

Maybe once we can do all that fully autonomously and by that I mean with near zero non-remote intervention we might start thinking about space...

Re: Thermodynamics rules future orbital data centers

#102

Post by Ekaros »

Looking at current memory market. Are we already at point where after decommissioning recycling the memory chips could make economic sense? Maybe with anything else like say if significant amount of copper is used for power or cooling.

With space either you expand even more resources to get stuff back in one piece or it burns... Down on surface you can just ship them to facilities to do this. Maybe even automate lot of parts as these should be standard configurations.

Re: Thermodynamics rules future orbital data centers

#103

Post by jrflo »

Pxtl wrote: post #12
jobead wrote: post #8

Why is everyone so focused on heat when cosmic rays randomly scrambling memory is going to be a much bigger problem?

Cosmic rays can probably be resolved with some parity bits and redundancy. Especially since these don't have to be located way up in geosynch, lower orbits get you more magnetosphere protection. Not that it isn't a problem, but I think heat dissipation will have the edge.

You're gonna need a lot more than a parity bit.

Re: Thermodynamics rules future orbital data centers

#104

Post by brokenmachine »

krunck wrote: post #50
tristanj wrote: post #5

Economics calculator for Orbital vs Terrestrial Data Centers https://andrewmccalip.com/space-datacenters You can play around with the cost sliders to estimate the economics, but even being quite optimistic, space data centers cost ~2-3x of their terrestrial counterparts.

They'll pay the price if it means their data centers are immune to the anger of the commoners who are being surveilled, analyzed, and manipulated by systems running on these data centers.

>their data centers are immune to the anger of the commoners who are being surveilled

If the commoners are attacking infrastructure, there's still always going to be ground stations that can be attacked.

Re: Thermodynamics rules future orbital data centers

#105

Post by [deleted] »

bayindirh wrote: post #85
lispisok wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of datacenters in space is about control not economics. They dont want the masses which they are trying to replace with AI and robots to have access to the datacenters running everything.

Why people always take the worst parts of SciFi novels and try to built torment nexus? Again, we're getting closer to Hyperion Cantos here.

[deleted]

Re: Thermodynamics rules future orbital data centers

#106

Post by [deleted] »

bigbadfeline wrote: post #100
PowerfulWizard wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't heard of that being a problem for Starlink, whatever they've done there seems to be working. The Orbital AI would be at a higher orbit but still within LEO which reduces the radiation. I wonder if occasional bit flips even matter for typical AI calculations. Quantization seems to suggest a lot of the lower bits aren't all that important. Either way SpaceX has already had success building systems with commer…

> I haven't heard of that being a problem for Starlink, whatever they've done there seems to be working. Starlink doesn't need GPUs, they use hardened chips. The first question is, can whatever works as a 2nm GPU work where Starlink is? The second question is even funnier: Starlink satellites have a limited lifespan and regularly burn up in the atmosphere when they fall back to Earth - that's due to the need to fly t…

[deleted]

Re: Thermodynamics rules future orbital data centers

#108

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

solenoid0937 wrote: post #80

Space datacenters make no sense. Build them in the oceans? Then you can actually fix them as well.

How would you power them in the ocean? One of the attractions of space is the free power (the other apparently being less regulations, which may also not apply to the ocean).

I don't know if Musk, or anyone else, has talked about the economics of not being able to (economically) fix things in space. Presumably the idea would be to avoid components that fail more rapidly like mechanical hard drives (use SSDs instead), and to have redundancy so that even if one component fails it doesn't mean the whole satellite/node is now useless.

He must have done the math that at the anticipated failure rate each satellite would pay for itself before failing and needing to be replaced.

Re: Thermodynamics rules future orbital data centers

#109

Post by rbanffy »

lispisok wrote: post #82
tristanj wrote: post #5

Economics calculator for Orbital vs Terrestrial Data Centers https://andrewmccalip.com/space-datacenters You can play around with the cost sliders to estimate the economics, but even being quite optimistic, space data centers cost ~2-3x of their terrestrial counterparts.

The point of datacenters in space is about control not economics. They dont want the masses which they are trying to replace with AI and robots to have access to the datacenters running everything.

Your view is much more optimistic than mine. For me, they want servers that the police can’t easily seize with keys in memory.

Re: Thermodynamics rules future orbital data centers

#110

Post by rbanffy »

its-summertime wrote: post #62
krunck wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'll pay the price if it means their data centers are immune to the anger of the commoners who are being surveilled, analyzed, and manipulated by systems running on these data centers.

I think the more likely goal would be immunity to regulation.

You can’t release the files the police was never able to seize in the first place.
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