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Surface with Windows 8 Pro – Pricing

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Re: Surface with Windows 8 Pro – Pricing

#101

Post by hosay123 »

rimantas wrote: post #81
hosay123 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows has supported gestures and handwriting recognition for years, and the Pro comes with a stylus. To say a keyboard is critical seems a gross overstatement. As for use cases, how about: it's a tablet, without the regular complexities of 'tablet mode'. It runs the same stuff as your desktop, acts, smells, barks and looks just like your desktop, and if you want to use it like a crippled toy in the style of an iPad…

You put a lot of effort to get it backwards. > it's a tablet, without the regular complexities > of 'tablet mode' No, it is a table with added complexities of desktop mode. > It runs the same stuff as your desktop, acts, smells, barks and looks just like your desktop Except your desktop expects you to interact with keyboard and pointer device not with you touch. And there it all fails apart. > if you want to use it l…

A desktop expects input devices, yes, but also there has been a wonderful need to accommodate disabled people for decades prior to the whole tablet thing, and so all modern desktops have great support for auxiliary input devices, and in the case of business software some of it is even legally mandated in order to sell to government. Microsoft has had a great built-in framework for touch/stylus driven input since Windows XP (2001).

The end result is that an on-screen keyboard or gesture input is just as capable of driving desktop software, and it's been that way for a very long time. If any aspect of the experience is suboptimal, it would be tiny widget sizes that are unaccommodating to thumb-sized input. But that's covered by inclusion of a stylus.

Re: Surface with Windows 8 Pro – Pricing

#102

Post by dagw »

tmister wrote: post #26

How much space will it take for OS+Office+other default applications? If the situation is same as Surface RT then 64 GB Surface Pro is definitely not a good choice.

How much space will it take for OS+Office+other default applications

Exactly as much space as it takes up on your laptop.

Re: Surface with Windows 8 Pro – Pricing

#103

Post by ChuckMcM »

FireBeyond wrote: post #27
ChuckMcM wrote: post #7

Should be interesting. One of the things I've wished for was a tablet that could do both capacitive touch style interactions and more precise Wacom pen/tablet style interactions. Looks like I'll have a chance to play with an implementation of that. I agree with kimura that its a pretty high price point. Although reserve judgement on whether or not it crosses into the 'too expensive' territory. Its essentially the sam…

Well, no, it's arguably a "better" machine than the MBA in the sense that it can convert to a tablet, has a pressure sensitive digitizer, higher resolution, better sound system.

Sorry, I was being imprecise. From a Compute/Memory/Storage point of view its nominally the same as a Macbook Air. Gives context on what sort of programmatic performance you get.

Agreed it has a different peripheral set which makes it 'better' for some applications and perhaps 'not as good' for others. But I haven't tried it out so its hard to know.

I do have a Kagi capacitive stylus for my iPad and its not nearly as nice as the stylus I had on my old IREX e-reader or the Bamboo Wacom tablet on my Mac.

Re: Surface with Windows 8 Pro – Pricing

#104

Post by bcoates »

Has anyone done disk benchmarks on the built-in NAND of either the RT or Pro? I've really gotten used to the performance difference between modern SATA SSDs and spinning disks, I'd hate to buy a surface and get performance of the bad old days.

Re: Surface with Windows 8 Pro – Pricing

#105

Post by sliverstorm »

sukuriant wrote: post #96
sliverstorm wrote: post #78

Do we know how thickness will compare to the RT? From the photos, this looks kind of thick.

Microsoft says: Surface Pro: 10.81 x 6.81 x 0.53in 2lbs Surface RT: 10.81 x 6.77 x 0.37in 1.5lbs http://www.microsoft.com/Surface/en-US/surface-with-windows-... and http://www.microsoft.com/Surface/en-US/surface-with-windows-...

Perfect. So it is, in fact, 43% thicker. Still pretty thin, but nice to know my eyes were not deceiving me.

Re: Surface with Windows 8 Pro – Pricing

#106

Post by rmrfrmrf »

moskie wrote: post #58

I don't get the general perspective that the concept of what the Surface Pro is trying to be is a pointless/undesirable thing. Now, I totally understand the Surface Pro and Windows 8 might not be a _good_ solution to a problem... but there is a problem. And that problem is that I have too many devices. I have a tablet. I have a laptop. And I have a desktop. They all serve their function well, but I do imagine that in…

I disagree with your premise that 'all devices will be combined into one'. People want devices that do what they're built to do in the best way possible, not one device that tries to please everyone. That's why this idea of building a hybrid laptop-tablet drives me absolutely crazy: it is neither a good laptop nor a good tablet. The reviews of Surface confirm this.

Think about it: where have you seen a good example of any of these hybrids? - Consumer Copier/Printer/Scanner/Fax machines - Integrated Graphics Cards - Integrated Sound Cards - Monitor/Speaker combos - Pants that zip off into shorts - Glittens - etc. etc. etc.

Re: Surface with Windows 8 Pro – Pricing

#107

Post by sliverstorm »

Permit wrote: post #10

Everyone seems really blown away by the pricing and I'm not sure why. This isn't an iPad, it houses a fully functional operating system that lets you run existing Windows 7 desktop applications. In a use-case scenario I see it being more similar to a laptop than to the iPad. If I can run Visual Studio on it and it handles all my existing Windows 7 applications correctly, I'd consider purchasing it. I don't look at it…

I'm surprised, but I'm not surprised.

I'm not surprised because I knew it would have a premium over the Surface RT. At $699 for the 64GB RT, $899 sounds like just the right price for the 64GB Surface Pro.

I'm surprised, because there's no two ways about it- $899 and not even with a keyboard is pricey.

I think you're spot on though, this isn't an iPad. Looking at the photo at the top of the page, I have one word ringing about in my head, and it isn't "tablet"- it is "slate". This is not your grandma's new movie device, and it isn't meant to be.

Re: Surface with Windows 8 Pro – Pricing

#108

Post by moskie »

rmrfrmrf wrote: post #106
moskie wrote: post #58

I don't get the general perspective that the concept of what the Surface Pro is trying to be is a pointless/undesirable thing. Now, I totally understand the Surface Pro and Windows 8 might not be a _good_ solution to a problem... but there is a problem. And that problem is that I have too many devices. I have a tablet. I have a laptop. And I have a desktop. They all serve their function well, but I do imagine that in…

I disagree with your premise that 'all devices will be combined into one'. People want devices that do what they're built to do in the best way possible, not one device that tries to please everyone. That's why this idea of building a hybrid laptop-tablet drives me absolutely crazy: it is neither a good laptop nor a good tablet. The reviews of Surface confirm this. Think about it: where have you seen a good example o…

You're cherry picking bad examples. Good examples I can think of include cameras and phones. The iMac. Hell, the computer as we know it combines things like typewriters, mail, televisions, record players, phones, etc. etc. etc.

Re: Surface with Windows 8 Pro – Pricing

#109

Post by dpark »

rmrfrmrf wrote: post #106
moskie wrote: post #58

I don't get the general perspective that the concept of what the Surface Pro is trying to be is a pointless/undesirable thing. Now, I totally understand the Surface Pro and Windows 8 might not be a _good_ solution to a problem... but there is a problem. And that problem is that I have too many devices. I have a tablet. I have a laptop. And I have a desktop. They all serve their function well, but I do imagine that in…

I disagree with your premise that 'all devices will be combined into one'. People want devices that do what they're built to do in the best way possible, not one device that tries to please everyone. That's why this idea of building a hybrid laptop-tablet drives me absolutely crazy: it is neither a good laptop nor a good tablet. The reviews of Surface confirm this. Think about it: where have you seen a good example o…

> where have you seen a good example of any of these hybrids?

Did you try checking your pocket? You likely have a single device in your pocket right now that serves as a GPS, an MP3 player, a camera, a calendar, a clock, a calculator, a tiny computer for web browsing and email, oh, and also as a phone.

Re: Surface with Windows 8 Pro – Pricing

#110

Post by taylodl »

moconnor wrote: post #59
eykanal wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone's blown away because they priced themselves out of their target market. Whether they agree or not, this is going to be compared to the other tablets (i.e., the iPad) out there, and for the base models, the cost is almost double. For a company attempting to play catch-up, their giving themselves such a tremendous handicap is pretty unexpected.

I don't think their target market for the Pro is the hobbyist, or Mom and Pa, it's the enterprise business market, where the iPad has seen little penetration. This market doesn't care if the kickstand works on your knee. Or about a few hundred dollars here or there. Exchange integration, legacy internal applications, these things matter. Note taking in meetings.

I work in the enterprise business market, for a 100 year old blue chip firm - and the iPads have come in like a tsunami thanks to our BYOD policy. They have Exchange integration. Legacy internal applications? These have all been web-enabled over the past 10 years.

And the adoption has been top-down: it's the C-level execs that are driving this change. This has been going on for two years now. Microsoft seriously missed the boat and more and more is considered to be an old-school technology company like IBM.

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