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H.R. 6028 would fundamentally change the U.S. Copyright Office

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Re: H.R. 6028 would fundamentally change the U.S. Copyright Office

#101
post #63
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that's a bad summary of a bad argument. "Rulemaking" is what Congress is supposed to do .

The Constitution doesn't say that Congress can have its employees (which is what the Copyright Office is) make legally binding rules. Congress can make laws, but only through a specific process involving votes in the House and Senate and the signature of the President.

As much as I'm inclined to disagree with your views on principle, that is actually a cogent and relevant point.

Your initial comment would have been far stronger if it had dropped the irrelevant ad hom I called out previously, and had clearly stated your concern with Congress both legislating and regulating copyright, through the Library of Congress.

This also makes the question of how the Library of Congress came to be empowered with executing and* regulating copyright of interest. You've failed to explore this history. I'm somewhat familiar with both copyright law and the history of the Library, though not as a lawyer, and not specifically on the history of copyright and the Library both being effectively an executive function of the Legislative.

That also makes me wonder what other cross-branch functional contradictions exist. One that comes to mind immediately are ALJs (administrative law judges), which operate under the Executive rather than Judiciary, with one notable area being immigration law. The Senate and House each have Seargents of Arms, a nominally executive law-enforcement role under the legislative.

And of course there's the question of the present Administration's view that not only is it a unitary executive, but apparently a unitary Legislative and Judiciary as well.

Re: H.R. 6028 would fundamentally change the U.S. Copyright Office

#102

> In a voice vote earlier this week, the House of Representatives passed H.R. 6028, the “Legislative Branch Agencies Clarification Act.” wow, i had always assumed actual laws have to pass a recorded vote, but its not true... from wiki: > In Congress, "the vast majority of actions decided by a voice vote" are ones for which "a strong or even overwhelming majority favors one side", or even unanimous consent. Members ca…

Oh and the biggest bullshit about this is it removes one’s ability to hold their local representatives accountable. I just assume the worst!

Nope. If your local representative disagreed, he or she would have called for an actual vote. Your local representative agreed.

Re: H.R. 6028 would fundamentally change the U.S. Copyright Office

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh and the biggest bullshit about this is it removes one’s ability to hold their local representatives accountable. I just assume the worst!

From what I understand it’s rather true that a lot of Congress’ actual work is incredibly boring and that these procedures were invented to move it along. You can see a lot of difference in the way congresspeople talk based on whether it’s televised or not as well, especially in committees. I’m just a little surprised that voice votes haven’t been replaced by some kind of digital process. A voice vote doesn’t save ti…

Because while you are correct that these sorts of things were invented to make things move faster, they stick around because the person you were responding to is also correct in that it makes it harder to hold individual electeds accountable, so electeds have zero reason to really want to change anything in their procedures.

Re: H.R. 6028 would fundamentally change the U.S. Copyright Office

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [Copyright] is a societal evil. Such an extreme and emotional statement makes me think you've never really thought it through. For instance: without copyright the GPL is nothing . Also without copyright, all of the profit made on creative works (of a perhaps smaller pie) would get be kept by distributors like Amazon or Netflix. Authors wouldn't get a dime anymore, it'll all go to the likes of Bezos.

> without copyright the GPL is nothing That’s ok, GPL’s entire purpose and only restriction is to prevent other copyrights. > without copyright, all of the profit made on creative works (of a perhaps smaller pie) would get be kept by distributors like Amazon or Netflix This is already true in most cases: companies own everything their employees create for them. And without copyright, studios would still pay artists,…

> That’s ok, GPL’s entire purpose and only restriction is to prevent other copyrights.

You sure about that? Because I'm pretty sure it's "entire purpose" is to keep open source code open.

> And without copyright, studios would still pay artists, because that’s the only way art is created

Hate to break it to you, but that's just not true. But you know what would make that true? Abolishing copyright.

Re: H.R. 6028 would fundamentally change the U.S. Copyright Office

#105
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author, Joe Mullin, is a policy analyst: https://www.eff.org/about/staff/joe-mullin >. He's been working in that capacity with the EFF since at least 2018: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/02/ipr-process-saves-80-c... >. Your further objections are ... facile.

It suppose I can see "executive power should be part of the executive branch" as a facile argument because it does seem basic and a bit tautological, but it is still quite a strong point. It needs to be addressed rather than just identified and dismissed.

It is, and I've admitted as much in a subsequent response (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48517524>). It was however poorly articulated and muddied by some irrelevant distractions.

I'm working on a top-level comment on that point as I write this, given that this particular subthread is dead and thus invisible to most visitors to HN. My response highlights what seem to me salient points about other instances of violation of separation of powers, and of the history of the copyright office.

Re: H.R. 6028 would fundamentally change the U.S. Copyright Office

#106
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignoring power politics doesn't make them go away

But calling them out in a partisan may disincentivize half of the people to understand the issue.

I love not informing the electorate!

Re: H.R. 6028 would fundamentally change the U.S. Copyright Office

#107
post #81

Anything that destroys copyright is a good thing. It is a societal evil.

Last time someone uttered something similar, I didn't get an answer, so I'll ask it to you: what entitles you to free access to any song, movie or book?

>what entitles you to free access to any song, movie or book?

Does this sound profound to you? When you see yourself type it out, does it seem like you've really came up with a zinger?

What entitles them to come in and police my hard drive platters with "you can't write that sequence of bits to storage, that's our sequence of bits"? It's sort of a weird idea, sounds kind of medieval. Like King Cnut has granted them license to "the birds in the forest, and the timber, and the water that runs through the meadows".

Re: H.R. 6028 would fundamentally change the U.S. Copyright Office

#108

> In a voice vote earlier this week, the House of Representatives passed H.R. 6028, the “Legislative Branch Agencies Clarification Act.” wow, i had always assumed actual laws have to pass a recorded vote, but its not true... from wiki: > In Congress, "the vast majority of actions decided by a voice vote" are ones for which "a strong or even overwhelming majority favors one side", or even unanimous consent. Members ca…

> Members can request a division of the assembly (a rising vote, where each sides rise in turn to be counted)

Isn’t this the important bit? IIRC this can be demanded by anyone. If it passes by a voice vote, assume your representative voted yay or abstain.

Re: H.R. 6028 would fundamentally change the U.S. Copyright Office

#109
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What entitles you to use force to stop me creating a copy of something?

Not me, the state. That is significantly different. The reason is damaging someone's livelihood in the cases I mentioned. Or large scale economic damage in case you're copying money.

Should it be illegal to use a general purpose computing device because it damages Tim Cook's livelihood?

Re: H.R. 6028 would fundamentally change the U.S. Copyright Office

#110
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think it does. Discretion is fundamentally case by case. Drawing categorical lines is legislative. It’s akin to the distinction between law and equity courts at common law. Stepping back, both doctrines (non delegation, unitary executive) are fundamentally about the courts overstepping. If both houses of Congress pass a law creating an agency with a director that can only be fired for cause and the president…

> Drawing categorical lines is legislative. That’s even worse. If that’s the case, Congress must adopt those exemptions by law. It can’t delegate lawmaking powers to its employees. > Stepping back, both doctrines (non delegation, unitary executive) are fundamentally about the courts overstepping Unless you toss out the concept of judicial review altogether, policing the structural rules of the constitution is exactly…

That’s too high a level of generality. Sure police situations where the branches are at direct loggerheads.

But in this case we have a law passed by congress and signed by the president. There’s no need to step in, the ordinary political processes are more than sufficient. If the new President and congress doesn’t like what the last ones did they have the exact same tools at their disposal to undo it.

Let them play!

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