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Solar Energy Saves Europeans $135M a Day

cleantechnica.com

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Re: Solar Energy Saves Europeans $135M a Day

#101

Post by ndhbxyd »

complianceowll wrote: post #69
tapoxi wrote: post #23

I installed a solar system at my home in Massachusetts for 17k last year (after tax credits), 7.82 kw. So far it's covered about 70% of my usage and 5.7 Mwh. I don't have a full year of data yet so I expect that number to grow as it includes the summer months. I drive an EV and this includes the car.

Uh, that's absolutely badass... As an adult, one of the things that fascinate me is self-sufficiency: the idea that you can buy a solar power system, install it, and use your own power -- without getting a bill in the mail every month, many times feeling like a victim of modern day suburban subjugation. I'm still a good little obedient peasant, but I hope one day I can rely more on well water/rain catchment system, s…

They dont talk about rebound effect. When energy gets cheap/free people produce more, consume more, waste more.

Re: Solar Energy Saves Europeans $135M a Day

#102

Post by [deleted] »

nonethewiser wrote: post #95
ctkhn wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what the actual cost was, but in 2015 my parents got a solar system in California that covers the entire house plus an EV. I remember looking at the time to payoff and I think it took maybe five years, now day to day power and all their driving is essentially free.

What about without subsidies?

[deleted]

Re: Solar Energy Saves Europeans $135M a Day

#103

Post by triceratops »

ifjfkfkfkfj wrote: post #42
photonair wrote: post #11

With oil prices and wars, the adoption for renewables and not just solar should accelerate to wean the world off oil.

Yeah more dependency on china! Nothing to backfire, no Chinese influence at all!

You don't buy anything else from China? You're sure none of the oil drills or gas turbines in your country are from there?

Re: Solar Energy Saves Europeans $135M a Day

#105

Post by elevation »

complianceowll wrote: post #88
polairscience wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you own a home you should genuinely spend time calculating and thinking about it. It's not near as far fetched as you think. You can benefit from the same technical advancements in engineering and manufacturing that have benefited every single industrial sector. It has never been easier. The number of plug and play components out there is unreal. These days it's very much sun-legos. You decide what you can afford…

I 100% believe you! We're planning on doing a custom build for our next home, and I'm going to budget for solar. Like you said, it's gotten so much easier these days and I think that we don't take advantage of this because it requires budgeting/saving and because paying a monthly bill can be so much easier in the short-term. But I'm 100% going to do this.

If you're building a place, consider how you could arrange some of your basement for effective food storage.

This family[0] appears to be 90% agriculturally self-sufficient: they occasionally eat out, but grow most of what they eat. They store a lot of food in their basement, critically, with a DIY ventilation system. If you're building a home from scratch, and you're independently minded, it's the ideal time to build in some food storage and ventilation access in your floor plan.

When I showed this video to a coworker who also eats mostly off her own land, she recommended beginning by experimenting with preserving store-bought produce before planting an ambitious garden that yields more food than you know how to store.

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz7OVfaYeSA

Re: Solar Energy Saves Europeans $135M a Day

#106

Post by fmobus »

ifjfkfkfkfj wrote: post #42
photonair wrote: post #11

With oil prices and wars, the adoption for renewables and not just solar should accelerate to wean the world off oil.

Yeah more dependency on china! Nothing to backfire, no Chinese influence at all!

Unlike the oil dependency system, where there's actual scarcity of the thing you need (oil), there's nothing special about building solar panels that locks you to China. Basically any country could build it, but they need to figure out how to build stuff in general (as opposed to outsourcing like the last three decades)

Re: Solar Energy Saves Europeans $135M a Day

#107

Post by toast0 »

ramesh31 wrote: post #97
toast0 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get it... system costs scale pretty closely with number of panels. If a $X system covers 100% of your use, a $X/2 system probably covers 50% of your use. Ignoring time value of money, if the $X system saves you $X / 5 per year, the $X / 2 system that generates 50% will save you $X / 10 per year. Both systems would have a 5 year ROI. Even if your half price system generates only 45%, it only brings the ROI out…

>"Ignoring time value of money" The time value of money is the entire point of what I've said. And it goes up exponentially when you are just getting by as most of us are. $17k right now is worth incredibly more to me than saving $200/month for the next 20 years.

Time value of money scales with the value too, though. I just wanted to make the math easy. If you the system costs half, and delivers half the savings annually, the ROI is the same. If the system costs half and saves a little less annually, the ROI is a little longer. I'd like to see real numbers where a 100% system gets you a ROI of 5 years and a smaller system gets you a ROI of 10+ years.

> $17k right now is worth incredibly more to me than saving $200/month for the next 20 years.

Would you take a $17k loan today, and pay it back at $200/month for 20 years? That's a 13% loan. Which I guess is a market rate for a personal loan, but those usually have a shorter period. My preferred credit union gives solar loans at 6.25% to 8%.

Would you take a $17k loan, to save $200/month for 20 years, but have to pay $191/month for 10 years to clear the loan? What about if you paid $146/month for 15 years? If not, why not? How about if you paid $331/month for 5 years?

Re: Solar Energy Saves Europeans $135M a Day

#108

Post by teiferer »

alexey-salmin wrote: post #85
teiferer wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Sadly, it gets overlooked how much subsidies nuclear and even oil+gas have received over the years. Nuclear energy wouldn't even be a thing without heavy govt subsidies. And it keeps needing subsidies. No nuclear plant is economical without subsidies. (The operators admit this themselves.) In contrast, the solar and wind industry is eventually carrying itself without subsidies. In many parts of the world tha…

The total cost of the French nuclear program since the beginning was estimated at 228 billion euros at 2012 prices, including both research and construction costs. By that time Germany cumulatively poured around a trilling euros into the green energy and still had coal power plants and 2x the CO2 per capita compared to France. As of 2026, in Germany 22.5% of electricity still comes from coal and CO2 per capita is sti…

Using German coal dependence as a baseline statistic to prove that nuclear is more economical than green energy is a remarkable stunt.

Re: Solar Energy Saves Europeans $135M a Day

#109

Post by tapoxi »

seidleroni wrote: post #41
tapoxi wrote: post #23

I installed a solar system at my home in Massachusetts for 17k last year (after tax credits), 7.82 kw. So far it's covered about 70% of my usage and 5.7 Mwh. I don't have a full year of data yet so I expect that number to grow as it includes the summer months. I drive an EV and this includes the car.

Curious who you ended up using and if you recommend them.

Great Sky Solar, they're a small local company and I had a great experience with them.

Re: Solar Energy Saves Europeans $135M a Day

#110

Post by parineum »

ndhbxyd wrote: post #101
complianceowll wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, that's absolutely badass... As an adult, one of the things that fascinate me is self-sufficiency: the idea that you can buy a solar power system, install it, and use your own power -- without getting a bill in the mail every month, many times feeling like a victim of modern day suburban subjugation. I'm still a good little obedient peasant, but I hope one day I can rely more on well water/rain catchment system, s…

They dont talk about rebound effect. When energy gets cheap/free people produce more, consume more, waste more.

Cheap energy is what drives innovation.

You'd never have cheap solar if we didn't have cheap coal first.

The problems of today will be solved by more energy consumption (desalinization or carbon capture, for example), not less.

Innovation is "waste" until it creates something new.

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