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The OnlyFans Economy of American AI

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Re: The OnlyFans Economy of American AI

#101

Post by codemog »

witx wrote: post #91
bix6 wrote: post #66

Is there any truth to the Chinese models having built in f’ery? Like phoning home or inserting backdoors. Or is that just everyone blanketing “China bad”? Also what local models are people running and actually finding useful?

If you think american models aren't phoning home and don't have backdoor capabillities, you're naive. With all the sloppers not looking at the code this is bliss for that sort of things

We’ve detected zero cases of any Chinese models doing this. I’m quite tired of the American propaganda. If only Americans understood China really does not care about them outside of wanting to sell them things. They’re too busy building high speed rails, modern cities, and providing healthcare to their citizens. I am ashamed to be an American these days.

Re: The OnlyFans Economy of American AI

#102

Post by zozbot234 »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #92
zozbot234 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that if used as a coding agent, an AI model affiliated with a country's government might try to make my software susceptible to attacks by that government's intelligence forces. Note that if such a trigger were to exist, the behavior has to be completely reproducible by definition, e.g. when put into the right setting with the right input context, the model starts behaving maliciously with at least some well-define…

Such incidents have been extensively described. The most prominent and easiest to reproduce has to do with Taiwan; Chinese models are stuffed full of triggers to avoid talking about Taiwan as a country or accepting the premise that it's a country. Try asking Deepseek about country code +886!

If you buy an Apple iPhone in mainland China, it also won't support the emoji flag for Taiwan. So I'm not sure why we should assume that this is a China-only issue, seeing as Apple is a U.S. based company.

Re: The OnlyFans Economy of American AI

#103

Post by JumpCrisscross »

codemog wrote: post #101
witx wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think american models aren't phoning home and don't have backdoor capabillities, you're naive. With all the sloppers not looking at the code this is bliss for that sort of things

We’ve detected zero cases of any Chinese models doing this. I’m quite tired of the American propaganda. If only Americans understood China really does not care about them outside of wanting to sell them things. They’re too busy building high speed rails, modern cities, and providing healthcare to their citizens. I am ashamed to be an American these days.

> tired of the American propaganda

Not propaganda. Projected cynicism.

Re: The OnlyFans Economy of American AI

#104

Post by MSFT_Edging »

Levitz wrote: post #19
tcp_handshaker wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Not sending data to known IP thieves, state actors, and competitors in China (or Russia or Israel) seems very rational. As opposed to sending data to known IP thieves, state actors, and competitors in the USA ? Which one is the most irrational?

You can legally act against one, not against the other. Not exactly a hard question.

Technically yes, practically, good luck.

Re: The OnlyFans Economy of American AI

#105

Post by bediger4000 »

SanjayMehta wrote: post #84
tcp_handshaker wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking forward to the outcome of those legal processes againt the CEOs, that sit behind Trump at the inauguration. After they stole all the knowledge in the world to train their models. And the current administration is drunk on SpaceX pre IPO shares...how did they get them? "Trump Officials Held Millions of Dollars of SpaceX Ahead of IPO" - https://news.bloomberglaw.com/texas-brief/trump-officials-he...

Nothing will happen to anyone. Biden preemptively pardoned his cronies, and so will Trump.

This is an argument against pardons, except that Trump has used instruments of state power against his perceived enemies (Comey James, Schiff, military occupation of Tim Walz state, etc etc).

Re: The OnlyFans Economy of American AI

#106

Post by qarl »

xnx wrote: post #12
zkmon wrote: post #9

Most American companies (regulated ones, definitely) can't dare to touch any Chinese models, though they knew that it makes perfect economic sense. Until the taboo prevails, the cartel get's their flood of profit. That's a cartel protected by regulations.

Is "taboo" the right word? "taboo" = "banned on grounds of morality or taste". Not sending data to known IP thieves, state actors, and competitors in China (or Russia or Israel) seems very rational.

The real advantage of the Chinese models is that they do not phone home at all. They run locally unlike their US competitors.

So odd that your erroneous criticism is at the top of HN.

EDIT: I'd love to hear my downvoters' objections. Is it possible that the mechanism that is promoting erroneous information is also demoting its correction?

Re: The OnlyFans Economy of American AI

#107

Post by Matl »

xnx wrote: post #12
zkmon wrote: post #9

Most American companies (regulated ones, definitely) can't dare to touch any Chinese models, though they knew that it makes perfect economic sense. Until the taboo prevails, the cartel get's their flood of profit. That's a cartel protected by regulations.

Is "taboo" the right word? "taboo" = "banned on grounds of morality or taste". Not sending data to known IP thieves, state actors, and competitors in China (or Russia or Israel) seems very rational.

> known IP thieves

Such as Antropic and OpenAI you mean?

Re: The OnlyFans Economy of American AI

#108

Post by tcp_handshaker »

jmyeet wrote: post #65

This is kind of a winding, long-winded way of saying that AI models are going to be commoditized, mostlikely by the Chinese. This has been my position ever since DeepSeek came out. It is a national security interest for China for an American company not to "own" AI. And they will release models to make that not happen. We aren't yet at the point where running local models can compete with DC type infrastructure but i…

>> In 3-5 years the NVidia hardware you buy will be several times cheaper and faster than what we have now. That will massively depreciate existing investments because it will ultimately come down to performance-per-Watt but if a theoretical G100 can do 3-4x of the inference of an H100 for the same power, the older hardware just won't be able to compete.

And this is the core of why this will all end in tears. You have race conditions and thread inversion issues, between four threads in the virtual cpu of this bubble. And you are going to experience some nasty deadlocks.

T1 is -> Depreciation and amortization

T2 is -> NVDA, AMD and others booking revenues at the time they do

T3 is -> Constraint theory at it applies to time until physical deployment and data centers energy constraints

T4 is -> US Treasury bonds rates and cost of credit

Re: The OnlyFans Economy of American AI

#109

Post by jayd16 »

blfr wrote: post #18

I don't get the point. That Anthropic or OpenAI have more expensive products than Alibaba? So does Apple, AWS/GCP, and pretty much any other large western company vs its Chinese counterparts.

It's a ludicrous amount of words to say "I use the cheap models and that makes me very smart."

Re: The OnlyFans Economy of American AI

#110

Post by mavhc »

worldthruword wrote: post #46
zkmon wrote: post #9

Most American companies (regulated ones, definitely) can't dare to touch any Chinese models, though they knew that it makes perfect economic sense. Until the taboo prevails, the cartel get's their flood of profit. That's a cartel protected by regulations.

And the reasons are same. Chinese cars can't be sold in US (EU is planning a similar law to ban Chinese goods).

When will we see an open source car?
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