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Vinyl succumbs to Loudness War: more than just collateral damage (2025)

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Re: Vinyl succumbs to Loudness War: more than just collateral damage (2025)

#101

Post by cyberpunk »

microtherion wrote: post #88
atoav wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a mixing engineer: 1. Compressed sound can be an integral (wanted) part of different genre aesthetics. I personally love dynamic mixes, but if you let your customers A/B mixes they will often chose the more compressed/louder one. If your song sounds weak after another bands song, that is an issue. 2. For reasons of health/liability there are maximum levels on headphones and mobile playback devices. That means if m…

Vinyl has the benefit that you can largely assume that it will NOT be listened to at all, cf. the studies showing that half of all vinyl buyers don’t even own a turntable.

Excuse my ignorance on the subject but… what? why would people buy vinyl records if not to listen to them?

Re: Vinyl succumbs to Loudness War: more than just collateral damage (2025)

#102

Post by majkinetor »

esikich wrote: post #55
Slow_Hand wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. The loudness is an aesthetic choice. The reason it was backed off for the vinyl master is most likely due to physical limitations of the medium. If the audio channels are too loud (wide) there is risk that the needle will jump out of the groove.

This is exactly why vinyl is inferior to tape and digital.

You mean beside all the noise it has?

Re: Vinyl succumbs to Loudness War: more than just collateral damage (2025)

#103

Post by foobarbecue »

chownie wrote: post #97
pembrook wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP has a valid question though. If you think its insane to spend that amount of money on it (essentially: it's not worth that much to you ), then you holding onto it instead of having $1300 is pretty much the exact same scenario? By holding onto it you're saying it is worth that much to you. It sounds like believing you hunted down a 'deal' causes you to wildly change how you perceive value at an emotional level. I w…

He wants the thing. He does not value the thing at 1300 dollars so he would not buy it for 1300 dollars. He found it for a lower value, he kept it because the point at the start was he wanted the thing. On the topic of HN users, is it our collective first day on earth?

Take me to your reader

Re: Vinyl succumbs to Loudness War: more than just collateral damage (2025)

#104

Post by mrweasel »

lmm wrote: post #64
buildsjets wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep 3 pressings of Led Zep II out so I can demonstrate the difference to people who don’t believe that there is one. A first-week Robert Ludwig mastered version, a second-week pressing of the Ahmet Ertegun disaster, and 1977 remaster that really sounds just as good as the 1969 RL mix and is a lot cheaper. $20 for a VG+ copy compared to $1300. I am not insane so I did not spend $1300 on a used vinyl record, I found…

> I am not insane so I did not spend $1300 on a used vinyl record, I found mine for $2 at Goodwill. How is holding onto it instead of selling it for $1300 any less insane than buying it for $1300 in the first place?

The logic is a little broken for me... If he really wanted the record, and got it for $2, why would he then sell it and then not have it? Replacing it would cost at least $1300.

You're logic is why so much in this world if fucking broken. Everything is a grift, a hustle, an opportunity for profit.

Re: Vinyl succumbs to Loudness War: more than just collateral damage (2025)

#105

Post by NikolaNovak »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #82
bravura wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who taught you this? And why do you think this way?

He thinks that way because it's the only correct way to think. Try raising the value of the record and see what you think about it.

Mathematically that's absolutely true.

Emotionally, it feels different. It's fascinating to see downright angry gut reactions!

A few years ago my friend was selling his expensive camera on Kijiji. I asked him to sell it to me for slightly less as a friendly discount. He told me that's the same as just randomly one day giving me a wad of cash, so why would he do that?? I thought he's crazy and was a little bit offended. Actually maybe a fair bit offended!

It took me YEARS to realize that 1. He's absolutely completely Inarguably correct, and 2. People would find me no less crazy if I adopted same perspective.

Buy for $x, have and not sell for $x, same mathematically. But oh boy will people get instantly riled up emotionally :).

Re: Vinyl succumbs to Loudness War: more than just collateral damage (2025)

#106

Post by NikolaNovak »

mrweasel wrote: post #104
lmm wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am not insane so I did not spend $1300 on a used vinyl record, I found mine for $2 at Goodwill. How is holding onto it instead of selling it for $1300 any less insane than buying it for $1300 in the first place?

The logic is a little broken for me... If he really wanted the record, and got it for $2, why would he then sell it and then not have it? Replacing it would cost at least $1300. You're logic is why so much in this world if fucking broken. Everything is a grift, a hustle, an opportunity for profit.

People are getting angry at the math here. I'm Not the OP and have no moral judgement here, but from strict bank account balance perspective it's the same. Persuade me otherwise through addition and subtraction, not moral appeals.

1. I have 10,000 in my bank account. 2. I see a 1,300 record I like 3. I buy it 4. My bank account now has 8700 5. There's 1,300 difference if I choose to buy it or not

1. I have 10,000 in my bank account 2. I have a 1,300 record 3. If I sell it my bank account will have 11,300 4. 1,300 difference if I choose to sell it or not

No "end of the world, this is what's wrong with everybody" gross hyperboles please, I don't care one iota about whether anybody buys or sells expensive records, I don't make any moral judgement whatsoever and would appreciate people in turn not making extreme assumptions about what I think about expensive records. But economically, buying an expensive item or selling expensive item is the same - Prove it wrong with numbers not appeals to emotion please.

Re: Vinyl succumbs to Loudness War: more than just collateral damage (2025)

#107

Post by mrweasel »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #106
mrweasel wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The logic is a little broken for me... If he really wanted the record, and got it for $2, why would he then sell it and then not have it? Replacing it would cost at least $1300. You're logic is why so much in this world if fucking broken. Everything is a grift, a hustle, an opportunity for profit.

People are getting angry at the math here. I'm Not the OP and have no moral judgement here, but from strict bank account balance perspective it's the same. Persuade me otherwise through addition and subtraction, not moral appeals. 1. I have 10,000 in my bank account. 2. I see a 1,300 record I like 3. I buy it 4. My bank account now has 8700 5. There's 1,300 difference if I choose to buy it or not 1. I have 10,000 in…

> Prove it wrong with numbers not appeals to emotion please

But my point is that I don't care about the numbers. If fact my complaint was that it was made into a financial decision, just because the record happens to be worth $1300.

If it was a $10 record, bought used at $2, then few would argue that you should sell it and make $8. My argument is that it doesn't matter if you could make $8 or $1298, not if you enjoy the record and wish keep it. It's the defaulting to "You could make money" in so many of aspects of life that's starting to annoy me.

Re: Vinyl succumbs to Loudness War: more than just collateral damage (2025)

#108

Post by ablation »

cyberpunk wrote: post #101
microtherion wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vinyl has the benefit that you can largely assume that it will NOT be listened to at all, cf. the studies showing that half of all vinyl buyers don’t even own a turntable.

Excuse my ignorance on the subject but… what? why would people buy vinyl records if not to listen to them?

Large format artwork, limited edition/numbered pressings for collectability, limited edition/numbered pressings to try and sell on for a personal profit, supporting the band by purchasing a physical piece of merchandise perhaps directly from them, being part of a trend they've seen on TikTok/Instagram, etc.

Many reasons. A lot of the same reasons people buy, say, Pokemon cards and don't play the card game.

Re: Vinyl succumbs to Loudness War: more than just collateral damage (2025)

#109

Post by dash2 »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #106
mrweasel wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The logic is a little broken for me... If he really wanted the record, and got it for $2, why would he then sell it and then not have it? Replacing it would cost at least $1300. You're logic is why so much in this world if fucking broken. Everything is a grift, a hustle, an opportunity for profit.

People are getting angry at the math here. I'm Not the OP and have no moral judgement here, but from strict bank account balance perspective it's the same. Persuade me otherwise through addition and subtraction, not moral appeals. 1. I have 10,000 in my bank account. 2. I see a 1,300 record I like 3. I buy it 4. My bank account now has 8700 5. There's 1,300 difference if I choose to buy it or not 1. I have 10,000 in…

Turns out HN users have the Endowment Effect…

Re: Vinyl succumbs to Loudness War: more than just collateral damage (2025)

#110

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

Vinyl literally has less than half the dynamic range of CD and has always been compressed before cutting.

Hard limiting is a (stupid) choice, but some limiting has always been necessary.

The "warm vinyl sound" is basically analog compression with added low-end distortion from the RIAA compensation and some wrinkles at the high end caused by stylus resonance.

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