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American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

economist.com

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Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#101

Post by sfblah »

maxdo wrote: post #44
randycupertino wrote: post #10

I would say with inflation, wealth inequality and skyrocketing housing, gas and grocery prices as well as super high amounts of consumer debt and families stretching to keep up it feels a lot like pre-bust 2005/2006 economy out there right now. We might not be on the cusp of a subprime mortgage bank crisis but it does feel ominous lately.

You just named symptoms not cause. 1. People vote for old idiots . 2. Local politics is all about milking any potential work with permits. Sky rocket housing due to that . 3. American lost engineering culture everywhere except software . Now software is dead as industry we used to know

Personally I think those are also symptoms. In my opinion, the cause is:

1. Easy money for far, far, far too long in the US and a complete political unwillingness to take any risk of a recession, no matter the long-term cost required to stave it off. In my mind, this explains the rich-poor gap, the rise of crypto, insane valuations, house-price inflation, the weird delta between US and rest-of-world standard of living/salaries, and probably even the migration crisis.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#102

Post by WalterBright »

satvikpendem wrote: post #84
thothless wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

your first question was better. "how does creating wealth hurt others?" most of this "wealth" is not "created" out of thin air. nor created at all. more like, transferred.

Wealth is a positive not zero sum game. It is not transferred except in the most literal cases like lotteries and casinos.

Gambling is not a transference. The gambler is buying a chance to win money. It's an equal value for equal value.

Zero sum are things like taxes, where the government just takes it, or robberies.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#104

Post by defrost »

mvdtnz wrote: post #93
avidiax wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The French Revolution is no longer possible. The surveillance state plus wealth mobility means the wealthy will be in New Zealand before anyone erects a guillotine, and the people that would foment a revolution are heavily surveilled and infiltrated.

[flagged]

Hey, don't leave out the New Zealand Navy having an entire two frigates and an oiler.

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xUYbI64QHI

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#105

Post by Nursie »

hparadiz wrote: post #86
c1sc0 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure about that? Tech cuts both ways & asymmetric drone warfare has become cheaper than ever … how hard it is it to sink some yachts or down some jets?

I could only relate to this stuff in my 20s but now I just don't care. Maybe it's cause I went from This idea that people will rise up and replace what we've got now with better is part of the problem. You literally do not know how lucky you are to live in this time because you are living in the middle of a golden age and don't even realize it. Because when you're in the middle of a golden age it feels normal. And fo…

> I watched them become millionares by simply getting up and working hard.

If it was that easy, every office cleaner or bank clerk would be a millionaire.

> living in literally the best time ever to be a human being

Sure, but we're also watching the rise of a new oligarchy, and their latest innovation appears poised to put a lot of people out of work, making their lives materially worse.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#106

Post by gamerslexus »

avidiax wrote: post #52
Stitch4223 wrote: post #8

> Perhaps the danger is not 2008, 1999, 1973 or even 1873, but 1789. 1789 was the year of the French Revolution [1]. The rest are years with financial crises. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution

The French Revolution is no longer possible. The surveillance state plus wealth mobility means the wealthy will be in New Zealand before anyone erects a guillotine, and the people that would foment a revolution are heavily surveilled and infiltrated.

It's kind of true:

> ... federal intelligence agencies and domestic law enforcement are circulating reports with a new domestic target in mind: anti-technology extremists.

> This new effort follows President Donald Trump's National Security Presidential Memo 7, which instructs the Department of Justice to target anyone holding “anti-American,” “anti-Christian,” and "anti-capitalism” beliefs.

https://www.wired.com/story/us-law-enforcement-warns-of-anti...

To be fair though in the times of French Revolution the surveillance capability was really basic compared to today, the tech capability to organize protests was lower too. Which one prevails? We know that in PRC and maybe Russia it's surveillance, but what about US?

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#108

Post by danmaz74 »

WalterBright wrote: post #16
randycupertino wrote: post #10

I would say with inflation, wealth inequality and skyrocketing housing, gas and grocery prices as well as super high amounts of consumer debt and families stretching to keep up it feels a lot like pre-bust 2005/2006 economy out there right now. We might not be on the cusp of a subprime mortgage bank crisis but it does feel ominous lately.

[flagged]

Creating wealth doesn't hurt others. Removing wealth from most people to put it all in a few people's hands DOES hurt most people though.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#109

Post by WalterBright »

galaxyLogic wrote: post #55
abuob wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're genuinely curious, a few suggestions that I personally found incredibly enlightening: Anand Giridhardas, Winners Take All: The book is fantastic, there's also his now infamous google talk where he talks about dismantling google: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d_zt3kGW1NM Thomas Piketty, Capital in the 21st century: Probably the most comprehensive (but at times also longwinded) outline on how wealth inequalit…

I was just thinking about it, rich people have money to spend in elections to get their representatives elected. When they do they make laws, or remove existing laws, to help rich get richer, so they have more money to spend in the next election. And so it goes. Solution might be legislation that puts limits on how much money each person can spend on elections. But it may be too late, there are so many rich people in…

I'd prefer term limits.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#110

Post by mlsu »

WalterBright wrote: post #39
abuob wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're genuinely curious, a few suggestions that I personally found incredibly enlightening: Anand Giridhardas, Winners Take All: The book is fantastic, there's also his now infamous google talk where he talks about dismantling google: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d_zt3kGW1NM Thomas Piketty, Capital in the 21st century: Probably the most comprehensive (but at times also longwinded) outline on how wealth inequalit…

How about a summary of Piketty's argument? We could start off with how are you worse off because of people wealthier than you?

Piketty argues that if r > g, wealth will accumulate into fewer and fewer hands over time. R is the rate of return of capital (rents, stocks, bonds, etc) and g is the growth of the economy over time.

If the economy grows at a higher rate than the rate of return, the pie gets bigger at a higher rate than wealth can concentrates. If the rate of return accumulates capital at a higher rate than the growth of the economy, wealth will inevitably concentrate over time.

He uses a lot of examples and economic history to argue that r > g, except for a few small periods. I think given the amount of wealth concentration we are seeing, and the political effects thereof, it is a compelling argument. Taxation (of wealth) is the proposed solution.

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