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GTA 6 Developers Unionize

rockstarintel.com

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Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#101

Post by ionwake »

Isnt management at Rockstar the same poeple who:

A) Allowed a bug in the code make all GTA5 Load times on every single copy on every platform take exponential times longer to load, for YEARS, unchecked or investigated, until some random kid FIXED IT by reverse engineering compiled code?

B) The bug was a simple and unneeded look up for SHOP items

C) The never rewarded the kid, with say a job or something worthwhile for him like 100k ( when they earn billions ). I mean even this decision ALONE is such terrible optics clearly mgmt were AFK.

D) They then came onto HN to argue with me in the comments about how " its not nice to say mgmt responsible should have been fired over this"

I mean Ive had my share of almost blinding incompetence, but the one that really bothers my crumpet, is when they come on here and start denying things.

Im for the union, Rockstar North made one of the greatest games of all time. It will probably result in an inferior product but crunch is unethical and always due to poor management. Ironically it was probably mgmts' own incompetent hiring policies that resulted in a union being formed.

PS - I got a bit heated and have edited this comment so its readable apologies.

PS - All of this can be verified in previous posts on HN regarding both the bug and replies

PS - And to whoever is downvoting me, feel free to reply and tell me what I am wrong about

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#102

Post by dude250711 »

flohofwoe wrote: post #98
chasd00 wrote: post #92

What is the career ladder like for game devs? In a union, the only way up is seniority or, in other words, the amount of money you've paid in dues over the years. A great developer isn't going to get rewarded with higher pay or a better role unless they've spent enough time/money as a union member.

The typical carreer ladder for most people on a game dev team is basically to get fired when a game project ends and trying to get hired by another game company that's just starting a new project ;) Maybe exaggerating a bit, but that's the reality in many game dev shops, especially when a game doesn't immediately sell in great numbers.

"...when a game project ends..." ...regardless of whether the game is successful or not. On the upside, you get freedom to create stuff like Concord and Highguard.

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#103

Post by lucky_cloud »

matchbok3 wrote: post #93
HugoTea wrote: post #5

This is great news, unions not only improve working conditions, but also improve the final product by not having underpaid stressed staff with high turn-over. It's a good sign for the future product quality of any company to see workers unionise.

There's no data to prove this assertion, unfortunately.

There are plenty of studies backed by plenty of data to support exactly these assertions.

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#104

Post by tossandthrow »

matchbok3 wrote: post #93
HugoTea wrote: post #5

This is great news, unions not only improve working conditions, but also improve the final product by not having underpaid stressed staff with high turn-over. It's a good sign for the future product quality of any company to see workers unionise.

There's no data to prove this assertion, unfortunately.

I trust that you are able to translate yourself

https://www.ae.dk/debatindlaeg/2023-05-staerke-fagforeninger...

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#105

Post by charcircuit »

slg wrote: post #91
ryandrake wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it as simple as supply/demand? People love games and game-loving developers are willing to take lower compensation to be in the industry? As a former obsessed gamer, I remember in my 20s I almost would have been willing to work at iD Software without pay if they let me.

All else being equal, the cooler a job is, the less it will pay. It's why unions have been so successful in other "cool jobs" like professional athlete and working on movies and TV. There are some people who would do those jobs for free which completely destroys the market power of most individuals requiring collective action to prevent exploitation.

Working for the amount of money one agrees to is not exploitation.

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#108

Post by tpmoney »

well_ackshually wrote: post #42
diath wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has not lagged behind depending on how you look at it, video game development can be split into engine programming and gameplay programming. For engine programming, you only need a handful of senior engineers specializing in low level details of a video game engine, and these will get paid high appropriate wages that match industry standard salaries. For the gameplay programmers, they just seek the cheapest labor…

Nope. Rendering, tooling, audio, core engine... None of these pay particularly well. More than just gameplay programmer, sure, but because many engines have moved to a visual node style of programming, it's also less and less programming in the gameplay department. >there's a large pool of juniors/interns that will accept these low wages just because they want to be a part of something popular. That's an unbelievably…

> That's an unbelievably bad _and_ disrespectful take. They accept these low wages because it's their only way in the industry, and because the industry has made sure to keep a steady supply of fresh meat to burn out

Is it really “disrespectful” to make an observation of how the world is even if it maybe isn’t how it should be? That fact of the matter is no one “needs” to accept these wages. Software development in general and game development in particular are labor fields of choice. Being a software developer can pay you better in so many different parts of the field, even today long after the dot com boom. People are choosing to accept these bad offers because they value working in this part of the industry more than they value the higher wages they can get elsewhere. Just like plenty of us choose not to make FAANG levels of money because we value our work life balance, or our specific living locations or our principles and beliefs over the money that those companies are throwing at people.

We can talk about how these bad offers are knowingly abusive or artificially suppressed and still acknowledge that people are making informed choices to accept those offers.

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#109

Post by charcircuit »

rowanG077 wrote: post #30
diath wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has not lagged behind depending on how you look at it, video game development can be split into engine programming and gameplay programming. For engine programming, you only need a handful of senior engineers specializing in low level details of a video game engine, and these will get paid high appropriate wages that match industry standard salaries. For the gameplay programmers, they just seek the cheapest labor…

But don't bad gameplay programmers implement gameplay badly? If that is truly the state of the industry that explains all the modern games with extremely mushy controls.

Customers don't care about the code. They just care that the gameplay is fun.

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#110

Post by AndrewKemendo »

amazingamazing wrote: post #83
simonjgreen wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The unionised Openreach in UK who are really the de facto layer 1 network provider telco build infrastructure to a staggeringly higher quality than most of the move fast startup alternatives. Aviation unions force very high standards and represent a lot of the developments in safety and procedures. Nuclear power is heavily unionised, resulting in a very stable and highly qualified workforce. Unions in film and tv hav…

I see the benefit of a union for the workers, but your examples seem strange. They do not illustrate that a union somehow results in a better product. If that were self evident how come there has never been a company that started with employees unionized? To get this supposed benefit

They’re called cooperatives

Mondragon is a extremely large well structured cooperative that did exactly this and is a hallmark of success for anarchist cooperatives worldwide

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