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Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

gingerlime.com

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Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#101

Post by MBCook »

edflsafoiewq wrote: post #44
zuzululu wrote: post #28

My suggestion is to just ban specific regions or countries and you can cut 80% of this fraud. I'm not going to name those countries outright but you should never ever be launching globally until you have these safeguards in place. Once you are known to be vulnerable to a certain scheme, it quickly becomes known in that region/country. Again and again I'm reminded why high trust societies remain high trust and why low…

> I'm not going to name those countries outright Why?

I would assume it’s not that relevant to the advice. And people will always argue about the countries if you list them.

X isn’t bad. You should include Y. You only added/omitted Z because of $stereotype/$racistView/$otherAllegation.

Probably just not worth the hassle.

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#103

Post by Cider9986 »

hdra wrote: post #90
shash7 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got 13 chargebacks over the last 4 years for my biz. Out of these, 10 came from US based cards. The other 3 came from Australia(my country). Be careful when taking verbatim advice from internet strangers.

not to mention, thats pretty bad advice for these chargeback frauds. not gonna deny some regions have higher risk of frauds, but these are mostly high-volume automated schemes. in the case of these "friendly fraud" schemes, they are much more likely to come from more developed regions with strong consumer protection laws like the NA. if anything in many of those "high risk" regions, chargeback are much less common be…

Yeah, they will likely be spoofing their location anyway with residential IPs to let their payments go through easier and maintain identity separation.

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#104

Post by akerl_ »

gingerlime wrote: post #85
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author thinks it matters what Stripe said, since they chose to use it as the title for their blog post. To the extent that it was just meant to be a lament that it's hard to be a small online merchant in an era of strong consumer protections, sure, I sympathize. But they seem to think it's a problem with Stripe that could be fixed if Stripe behaved better.

Author here. What makes you think Stripe cannot do better here?

Stripe has a customer's bank saying "the customer says they didn't make this payment" and you saying "the customer told me they did make this purchase and got the item and they're making fun of me".

They have no way to know if your evidence is real, any more than the bank has a way to know if their customer's evidence is real. Either one (or both) of you could be full of shit.

In that world, what would you like Stripe to do better?

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#105

Post by verelo »

shash7 wrote: post #63
zuzululu wrote: post #28

My suggestion is to just ban specific regions or countries and you can cut 80% of this fraud. I'm not going to name those countries outright but you should never ever be launching globally until you have these safeguards in place. Once you are known to be vulnerable to a certain scheme, it quickly becomes known in that region/country. Again and again I'm reminded why high trust societies remain high trust and why low…

I've got 13 chargebacks over the last 4 years for my biz. Out of these, 10 came from US based cards. The other 3 came from Australia(my country). Be careful when taking verbatim advice from internet strangers.

Yeah, all my chargebacks are Americans. Realtors are the worst.

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#106

Post by m463 »

plantain wrote: post #84
shash7 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got 13 chargebacks over the last 4 years for my biz. Out of these, 10 came from US based cards. The other 3 came from Australia(my country). Be careful when taking verbatim advice from internet strangers.

+1 almost all from the US. The strongest signal is whether they use an eBank/app that has a one-click button to report transactions as fraudulent. The Apple card(?) seems especially prevalent.

I had a friend with the apple card, and there were fraudulent charges on her card before she even used it.

I think that caused her to over-scrutinize things.

But (years) later I saw her using apple pay. She had charges she didn't recognize and would immediately flag them. Thing is, I couldn't help but think they might have been real charges with weirdly named companies on the transaction.

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#107

Post by GuardCalf »

Solid post. The key takeaway for me was Stripe admitting they won't use post-dispute evidence of friendly fraud to build cross-merchant signals in Radar. That, plus the customer literally bragging about it after winning the chargeback, shows how lopsided the system is against indie sellers. Thanks for sharing.

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#108

Post by cwillu »

nostromo wrote: post #42

The customer screwed you over, and then their bank did too. Stripe didn't. I'm not sure why Stripe is getting blamed in the title and the article. Yeah, maybe Stripe could do more without Radar, but I imagine it could also be fraught if Stripe was in the business of blocking customers from their entire network based on one vendor's complaint. Obviously a lot could go wrong with such an approach.

> it could also be fraught if Stripe was in the business of blocking customers from their entire network based on one vendor's complaint

“You probably don’t want a system where one annoyed merchant can get someone blocked across the whole Stripe payment system. But there’s a pretty big gap between “automatically block this person everywhere” and “thanks for the screenshots, please consider Radar”, and this is where it gets frustrating.”

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#109

Post by bberenberg »

gingerlime wrote: post #91
bberenberg wrote: post #14

I got hit with a fraudulent chargeback (claim was the purchase was unauthorized and the person showed up in person to a class) and it was doubly bad because they paid via Link which means that Stripe actively verified them via 2FA. Can someone explain to me why Stripe (or a competitor) doesn't offer a setting "refuse transactions for cards that have filed > x chargebacks with merchants this year"?

Yeah, though this rule sounds a bit tricky. Like what if someone legitimately had their card abused. The thing that gets me is that Stripe boasts about their machine learning radar rules etc etc, but somehow can't feed it actually valuable data. Stripe support saw the emails from the customer boasting about defrauding me, they completely agreed that this is a clear case of friendly-fraud, but did nothing with this in…

Stripe can’t do anything per the way CCs work. Asking for that to change is a big ask. Asking my vendor to help me not do business with people who are likely to scam me is a smaller one.

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#110

Post by thrownthatway »

vbezhenar wrote: post #93
shash7 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got 13 chargebacks over the last 4 years for my biz. Out of these, 10 came from US based cards. The other 3 came from Australia(my country). Be careful when taking verbatim advice from internet strangers.

I live in Kazakhstan (I assume that's one country nobody heard of and would disable in their dashboard) and my bank doesn't even have any UI for chargebacks, nor I ever heard about anyone doing chargebacks. They even explicitly warn me sometimes that I assume all responsibility for that payment. I guess I can go through some process, it's VISA after all, but it's definitely not something I can do easily.

Everyone’s heard of Kazakhstan, if not for the architecture, at least because of Borat.
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