Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Don't Roll Your Own

susam.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 128 posts

Re: Don't Roll Your Own

#101

Post by latexr »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #97
iainmerrick wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Write your own extension, then, and make it cheaper than the others -- or free!

I think their point is the answer to a problem a gapping wound isn't cheaper or even free bandaids. We already have regulations for accessibility and advertising. Yet they're weak in the US and rarely enforced.

But they’re saying it feels like extortion. The problems of the web aren’t the fault of those extension developers, nor can they do anything about it besides trying to mitigate it. It’s in our best interest that they can do so sustainably, meaning charging for it. It’s not gall, they’re fighting it for themselves and making the solution available for all.

That comment places a lot of blame where it doesn’t lie. It’s like calling surgeons extortionists for having the gall to charge for treating you. Yes, ideally that should be free and available to all, and perhaps if those people had the freedom to choose (e.g. having their own needs met so they didn’t have to work) they would do it. But that’s not how the system is setup, and their skills don’t translate to fixing the problem at the root. Not all of us are cut out to be politicians (and as we all know, being well-intentioned as one still doesn’t mean you have the power to enact policy).

Re: Don't Roll Your Own

#102

Post by throw5 »

latexr wrote: post #101
paulryanrogers wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think their point is the answer to a problem a gapping wound isn't cheaper or even free bandaids. We already have regulations for accessibility and advertising. Yet they're weak in the US and rarely enforced.

But they’re saying it feels like extortion. The problems of the web aren’t the fault of those extension developers, nor can they do anything about it besides trying to mitigate it. It’s in our best interest that they can do so sustainably, meaning charging for it. It’s not gall, they’re fighting it for themselves and making the solution available for all. That comment places a lot of blame where it doesn’t lie. It’s…

> It’s like calling surgeons extortionists for having the gall to charge for treating you. Yes, ideally that should be free and available to all

What do you mean by "should be"? Surgery is free and available to everyone. So why would one accuse surgeons of being extortionists? So I am not sure how the surgeon comparison works. That example supports the parent commenter's point that these extensions should be free.

Of course, there is still the practical question of who will do the work and how they will make a living. We can do what we do for surgeons. Maybe have a nonprofit consortium that people fund, so that it can support the extension developers. Yes, people would be spending money either way, but at least that money would be going toward a larger cause. Just like we pay taxes so the government can fund surgeons, who can then treat people.

Re: Don't Roll Your Own

#103

Post by ryanschaefer »

A strange issue I’ve found is careless use of AI at my job has lead to many people rolling their own incomplete mini parsers. Think YAML parsers of a frontmatter that expects either `key: value` exactly or treats `item1, item2, …` as a list.

It’s a litmus test I use to see if someone actually glanced over what the AI generated.

Re: Don't Roll Your Own

#104

Post by Minor49er »

ryanschaefer wrote: post #103

A strange issue I’ve found is careless use of AI at my job has lead to many people rolling their own incomplete mini parsers. Think YAML parsers of a frontmatter that expects either `key: value` exactly or treats `item1, item2, …` as a list. It’s a litmus test I use to see if someone actually glanced over what the AI generated.

This feels like a modern version of people writing regex to validate email addresses: employing a complicated, yet incomplete roll-your-own approach as the wrong solution to a problem

Re: Don't Roll Your Own

#105

Post by latexr »

throw5 wrote: post #102
latexr wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they’re saying it feels like extortion. The problems of the web aren’t the fault of those extension developers, nor can they do anything about it besides trying to mitigate it. It’s in our best interest that they can do so sustainably, meaning charging for it. It’s not gall, they’re fighting it for themselves and making the solution available for all. That comment places a lot of blame where it doesn’t lie. It’s…

> It’s like calling surgeons extortionists for having the gall to charge for treating you. Yes, ideally that should be free and available to all What do you mean by "should be"? Surgery is free and available to everyone. So why would one accuse surgeons of being extortionists? So I am not sure how the surgeon comparison works. That example supports the parent commenter's point that these extensions should be free. Of…

> What do you mean by "should be"?

I meant “would be”. Not that I think it makes that much difference here.

> Surgery is free and available to everyone.

That’s definitely not true worldwide. I think if you stop for a minute you can come up with at least one country. And even in those where it is free in public hospitals, it’s not uncommon for some to have a waitlist of years to the point you can die before it even happens. Also, did you know there are places where they don’t even have hospitals, let alone surgeons? The world is a big place, lots of disparity.

> So why would one accuse surgeons of being extortionists?

Even given all that, I think if you engage with the argument in good faith and steel man it instead of nitpicking, you’ll understand the point and can come up with your own example to satisfy you. Just pick a job you can’t do and have to pay for someone to fix something which wasn’t your fault or the fault of the other person. I believe you’re a smart person and could surely come up with something with little effort.

> there is still the practical question of who will do the work and how they will make a living.

That’s… The point. Especially for programmers, how many of us would do this shit for free, full time and beyond, for the sole purpose of benefiting others, if we had the opportunity to because we didn’t have to worry about basic needs? A large number. Way less than the number of programmers in the world right now, and that’s a good thing.

> Maybe have a nonprofit consortium that people fund

Fantastic idea. Are you doing it? Can you? Do you know where to start? And if you can’t, is that your fault? Should you be blamed for it? Are you an extortionist? Do you have gall for not doing it?

Re: Don't Roll Your Own

#107

Post by throw5 »

latexr wrote: post #105
throw5 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s like calling surgeons extortionists for having the gall to charge for treating you. Yes, ideally that should be free and available to all What do you mean by "should be"? Surgery is free and available to everyone. So why would one accuse surgeons of being extortionists? So I am not sure how the surgeon comparison works. That example supports the parent commenter's point that these extensions should be free. Of…

> What do you mean by "should be"? I meant “would be”. Not that I think it makes that much difference here. > Surgery is free and available to everyone. That’s definitely not true worldwide. I think if you stop for a minute you can come up with at least one country. And even in those where it is free in public hospitals, it’s not uncommon for some to have a waitlist of years to the point you can die before it even ha…

All fair points. Sorry, I spend a lot of time on regional forums, and I had a brain malfunction and forgot that when I write on HN, I am writing on a worldwide forum. Sorry for the unnecessary nitpicking.

Re non profit, I do donate to a few nonprofits I like, like those working on fediverse and my favorite langs. But I don't know of anything that does this for extensions. I'd have definitely voted with money if something was there. So, yeah, no, I am not doing anything to start a nonprofit for extensions. You have a good point.

Re: Don't Roll Your Own

#108

Post by latexr »

throw5 wrote: post #107
latexr wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What do you mean by "should be"? I meant “would be”. Not that I think it makes that much difference here. > Surgery is free and available to everyone. That’s definitely not true worldwide. I think if you stop for a minute you can come up with at least one country. And even in those where it is free in public hospitals, it’s not uncommon for some to have a waitlist of years to the point you can die before it even ha…

All fair points. Sorry, I spend a lot of time on regional forums, and I had a brain malfunction and forgot that when I write on HN, I am writing on a worldwide forum. Sorry for the unnecessary nitpicking. Re non profit, I do donate to a few nonprofits I like, like those working on fediverse and my favorite langs. But I don't know of anything that does this for extensions. I'd have definitely voted with money if somet…

> Sorry for the unnecessary nitpicking.

Thank you for the apology. Accepted.

> I do donate to a few nonprofits I like, like those working on fediverse and my favorite langs.

You already do more than most, and I commend you for it.

> So, yeah, no, I am not doing anything to start a nonprofit for extensions. You have a good point.

To clarify, the idea here was in no way to put you on the spot. Rather, what I’m saying is that none of us are doing so and that it’s not really fair to blame anyone for it. Most people don’t know how or don’t have the skills or inclination, and that’s understandable.

Re: Don't Roll Your Own

#109

Post by andai »

NooneAtAll3 wrote: post #52
andai wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found that most internet pages are greatly enhanced by disabling JavaScript in my web browser.

total disabling of JS is overkill I mean, I'm all for for switching to Lua or smth (which is a slightly different anti-JS camp than yours), but the problem isn't in interactive (or even non-frozen) pages in general - it's in pages reading user actions that user doesn't expect/want to

And fingerprinting the user, and spying on their behavior, and showing them crap, and wasting their battery, and wasting their bandwidth, and...

Re: Don't Roll Your Own

#110

Post by jason_oster »

latexr wrote: post #101
paulryanrogers wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think their point is the answer to a problem a gapping wound isn't cheaper or even free bandaids. We already have regulations for accessibility and advertising. Yet they're weak in the US and rarely enforced.

But they’re saying it feels like extortion. The problems of the web aren’t the fault of those extension developers, nor can they do anything about it besides trying to mitigate it. It’s in our best interest that they can do so sustainably, meaning charging for it. It’s not gall, they’re fighting it for themselves and making the solution available for all. That comment places a lot of blame where it doesn’t lie. It’s…

The definition of extortion is the coercion of money in "exchange for protection", where the threat to be protected against is typically perpetrated by the coercer. I'm not using the term in the literal sense, as if an antivirus software firm is producing computer viruses. Thus, this case "feels like extortion", not "we are being extorted". (It may as well be advertising firms selling ad blocking software because the net effect to the end user is the same, but I digress.)

FWIW, I don't consider surgeons to be extortionists. That's an absurdity that you are using as illustrative of why I'm wrong to call software developers extortionists when they charge for a privilege that should be a right. There are two issues with the comparison: 1) I did not call software engineers extortionists (but sure, I can see how you drew that conclusion), and 2) people absolutely should have a right to life-saving surgery and should not be denied on the basis of payment.

There is a huge preexisting problem: health care is not a human right [1]. There are other issues with health care that isn't just money. Many life-saving transplant patents are stuck in a wait list, for instance, and many die waiting. I do what I can. I'm a registered organ donor and try not to destroy my liver. I just haven't died yet, and I still need it. But this line of reasoning is off in the weeds, and I won't pursue it further.

Perhaps what it comes down to is that you have a pro-capitalist outlook, and I have They Live sunglasses.

[1]: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1126951/

Post reply on HN