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Spanish court declines to fine NordVPN over LaLiga piracy blocking order

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Re: Spanish court declines to fine NordVPN over LaLiga piracy blocking order

#101

Post by embedding-shape »

selfhoster1312 wrote: post #98
embedding-shape wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally it'll sort itself out, as the bans are unconstitutional and more, law just takes long time and we have other shit to sort out before starting to panic about 3-5 Cloudflare IPs getting banned for 2 hours a week...

Law enforcement killing citizens is also unconstitutional, and so was slavery in many countries. What a piece of paper says is far from reality.

Yes, and we're supposed to have freedom of speech in Spain too, guaranteed by our constitution, yet we do not. What other irrelevant details should we bring up that is currently missing from the conversation?

Re: Spanish court declines to fine NordVPN over LaLiga piracy blocking order

#102

Post by embedding-shape »

arielcostas wrote: post #80
embedding-shape wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe don't use Cloudflare in front of your business if you know that doing so will make it unavailable for 2-3 hours per week? These blocks been happening for years, if you're still letting you be affected, maybe you want to provide a poor service to your users? Most companies who used to use Cloudflare and actually want to be available to users, moved away a long time ago, it's a lot easier than many think.

Yeah, I'll let a company I don't do business with dictate who I actually do business with just because of their money interests. I don't like or use Cloudflare, I believe they are not good for the internet due to how centralised everything gets on them, and their blocking of non-mainstream setups (browser, OS, Javascript, no VPNs, no Tor and so on); but I'm not letting a football company say "we don't care about scre…

> but I'm not letting a football company say "we don't care about screwing you, we are blocking this"

I'm not sure you understand how these blocks in practice works, no private individual is "letting a football company" do anything, these are legal blocks enforcing the ISPs via courts and judges to block the Cloudflare IPs, you don't "let them" do it or not, it happens regardless of what you want.

Re: Spanish court declines to fine NordVPN over LaLiga piracy blocking order

#103

Post by embedding-shape »

j1elo wrote: post #90
embedding-shape wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe don't use Cloudflare in front of your business if you know that doing so will make it unavailable for 2-3 hours per week? These blocks been happening for years, if you're still letting you be affected, maybe you want to provide a poor service to your users? Most companies who used to use Cloudflare and actually want to be available to users, moved away a long time ago, it's a lot easier than many think.

That's very shortsighted, this pragmatism might work for a while but when enough companies do the same then some other infra provider would become the new big one, pirate sites would move to it, and La Liga would also block it, bringing everybody to square one.

Ok, so what company is La Liga going after now, since most companies in Spain already moved off Cloudflare? Since these blocks been happening for some hours per week, for years now.

I think you're missing a vital piece of the puzzle, the reason Cloudflare IPs are being blocked is because Cloudflare are not listening to legal take-down requests. Other CDN hosts are, which is why you're not seeing piracy streams using Fastly, because La Liga collaborates directly with Fastly.

So, given that CDN generally respond to legal requests, yet Cloudflare does not, I think this loop wouldn't happen if people move to CDNs that respond to legal requests, to be fair, is most of them.

Re: Spanish court declines to fine NordVPN over LaLiga piracy blocking order

#104

Post by embedding-shape »

troad wrote: post #95
swiftcoder wrote: post #2

> “Inside Spain, the consequences of indiscriminate IP blocking have become almost impossible to ignore,” NordVPN writes Too fucking right. It is beyond tiresome to fire up the laptop and wonder whether I'll need a VPN to access GitHub today

I just permanently live on a US VPN these days. [0] Not Spanish, but my own country has started overregulating the web, and it seems prudent to develop a long track record of appearing as a US based user to the various online fiefdoms, rather than needing to do it all at once once they pass some digital ID mandate or other nonsense. Not that there's any complete guarantee that the US web will forever remain open and…

> Though with mandatory ISP-level retention of browser history here

Huh, how would that even work? At most they get the host, at least unless you're still mostly using http sites, only the Host header should be visible to your ISP.

Re: Spanish court declines to fine NordVPN over LaLiga piracy blocking order

#105

Post by embedding-shape »

pigggg wrote: post #94
embedding-shape wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK, it's literally exclusively Cloudflare for me, never seen anything else (IP) banned, just the good old DNS-based blocking for some other crap, but maybe it's because of my ISP. What ISP are you on? They all seem to be responding and doing this differently.

Can confirm they've null routed various cloud providers IPs - with no notification and when folks reached out to the telecoms it took them 2 weeks of impact before they responded (even when provided with sufficient data of specific IPs getting dropped in their network).

Yes, IT infrastructure been a mess for a long time in Spain, even some regions TLDs been raided over bullshit and more before, no question about it.

Never noticed any other cloud provider than Cloudflare being affected by these "La Liga" blocks though, all the others seems to open collaborate with La Liga directly, instead of having a judge enact ISPs to act against the CDNs, but maybe I missed some announcement?

Re: Spanish court declines to fine NordVPN over LaLiga piracy blocking order

#106

Post by ktallett »

squiffsquiff wrote: post #39
ktallett wrote: post #7

Considering web addresses are easily changed, it was a futile suggestion to say block LaLiga streams. Good on Nordvpn. As a football fan, the owners of the leagues have too much power. Like in the UK people have gone to jail for piracy, which should never happen.

I am not defending the current situation but I am not aware of any case where anyone in the UK has gone to jail for piracy. Invariably what actually happens in such cases is: 1. See headline 'movie pirate goes to prison' which implies a link between the activity and the event 2. Actually read article based on industry press release and learn that the defendant was actually convicted for counterfeiting because they we…

There have both been fraud, which I find is more often the case recently along with money laundering. However, one of the Woodward brothers was charged and convicted with distributing copyrighted material, hence piracy.

Re: Spanish court declines to fine NordVPN over LaLiga piracy blocking order

#107

Post by ktallett »

SpaceNugget wrote: post #100
bromuro wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Spain soccer is culturally important - not economically central. Everyone in the world knows teams like Real Madrid or Barcelona. On the other side Spain is home of major telecom and banking multinationals, high-speed rail networks, renewable energy... the startup ecosystem is strong in many cities. Also european countries are deeply competitive in areas like industrial automation, aerospace, pharmaceuticals, semi…

> Everyone in the world knows teams like Real Madrid or Barcelona I promise you that if you go canvas a random selection of North Americans you would be astonished at how many do not recognize "Barcelona" as anything but a city. Football is really not very popular there. Though in recent years it is slowly becoming a bit more watched.

I can assure you that Mexicans (where football is the main sport and has been for years) would, Hondurans, Panamanians, and many others. If you simply mean the USA and Canada say so. Football is the most watched sport comfortably, with the odd anomaly like the US.

Re: Spanish court declines to fine NordVPN over LaLiga piracy blocking order

#108

Post by embedding-shape »

fsflover wrote: post #99
iLoveOncall wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish people who state "you have to fight" also said how. The extreme majority of people has no fucking clue about how to act about anything, and it's definitely the biggest blocker.

One way is to support https://eff.org or https://edri.org .

More directly relevant to the context would be some similar Spanish organizations:

https://xnet-x.net/en/, https://criptica.gitlab.io/, https://libertadinformacion.cc/ and https://laweb.pangea.org/ are a few, I'm sure there are more I'm missing :)

Re: Spanish court declines to fine NordVPN over LaLiga piracy blocking order

#109

Post by troad »

embedding-shape wrote: post #104
troad wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just permanently live on a US VPN these days. [0] Not Spanish, but my own country has started overregulating the web, and it seems prudent to develop a long track record of appearing as a US based user to the various online fiefdoms, rather than needing to do it all at once once they pass some digital ID mandate or other nonsense. Not that there's any complete guarantee that the US web will forever remain open and…

> Though with mandatory ISP-level retention of browser history here Huh, how would that even work? At most they get the host, at least unless you're still mostly using http sites, only the Host header should be visible to your ISP.

Yes, I mean hosts, not literal browser history. I should've been clearer.

Re: Spanish court declines to fine NordVPN over LaLiga piracy blocking order

#110

Post by SpaceNugget »

ktallett wrote: post #107
SpaceNugget wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone in the world knows teams like Real Madrid or Barcelona I promise you that if you go canvas a random selection of North Americans you would be astonished at how many do not recognize "Barcelona" as anything but a city. Football is really not very popular there. Though in recent years it is slowly becoming a bit more watched.

I can assure you that Mexicans (where football is the main sport and has been for years) would, Hondurans, Panamanians, and many others. If you simply mean the USA and Canada say so. Football is the most watched sport comfortably, with the odd anomaly like the US.

If I'm refuting that everyone in the world knows x, by showing a large population that doesn't know x. Saying that there is some other population that does know x makes no difference.

GP: all trucks are red. Me: no, here's some trucks that are blue. You: but look how many red trucks I see over there.

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