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Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

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Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#101

Post by repelsteeltje »

nradov wrote: post #77
wagwang wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can some lawyer explain the rationale of statute of limitations? Like why does a robber get to get away with the crime if they are able to evade the police for x number of years. Is it just because the trials suck after a while cuz no one remembers anything?

Are you asking about criminal or civil law? This was a civil case. The general reason for imposing filing time limits is that it's better for businesses and society in general to have certainty about outcomes rather than perfect justice. If a plaintiff tries to dredge up old issues from many years ago it just wastes everyone's time and clogs up the court system.

+1

Wasting everyone's time and clogging up the court system perfectly describes the heart of this matter. Plain bullying and hype.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#102

Post by enraged_camel »

colechristensen wrote: post #48
2b3a51 wrote: post #9

Reached for comment by TechCrunch, Musk’s lead counsel Marc Toberoff said, “One word: Appeal.” One wonders on what grounds? In the UK, in a civil case like this, the judge I think comments on the likelihood of an appeal avenue once the verdict has been reached.

He lost on the grounds of a statue of limitations defense which is exactly the kind of thing which is easily appealable.

Pretty sure it's the opposite: appeals mostly only work when the decision is not clear cut, and the statute of limitations is.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#103

Post by tim333 »

dcow wrote: post #53
paxys wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statute of limitations is not a "bureaucratic technicality", it is the law.

I am absolutely certain that if Sam was suing xAI and the case got dismissed on a technicality people would be lined up with screeds about the injustice of the situation.

I think it would depend on the facts of the case. This one seemed a bit of a non case. Quote from a law expert in the FT which I thought good:

>the spectacle of these two multibillionaires fighting about power and money has distorted and obscured what the law is meant to care about here, which is the public interest

(https://www.ft.com/content/846479c8-4ab0-4812-a1d5-08abdd8b9...)

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#104

Post by chipsrafferty »

Arodex wrote: post #93
granzymes wrote: post #81

Because no one has commented yet on the legal significance: Musk lost today because the jury found that he waited too long to bring his claims. The jury answers only yes/no questions, so we do not know their exact thoughts, but it is likely they determined that the 2019 and 2021 Microsoft deals were too similar to the 2023 Microsoft deal that was the centerpiece of Musk’s lawsuit. Musk could have brought the same law…

>Musk could have brought the same lawsuit in 2019 or 2021, meaning his claims were untimely for the 3 year statute of limitations. Why is a hypothetical ground for this decision? "You didn't complain immediately the first time you got robbed, therefore all the robbing since then is covered by a statute of limitation".

There are multiple reasons why statutes of limitations exist, one of them being that the further away in time, the harder it is to prove evidence. Witnesses may have died, or their memory may be more faulty.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#106

Post by granzymes »

Arodex wrote: post #93
granzymes wrote: post #81

Because no one has commented yet on the legal significance: Musk lost today because the jury found that he waited too long to bring his claims. The jury answers only yes/no questions, so we do not know their exact thoughts, but it is likely they determined that the 2019 and 2021 Microsoft deals were too similar to the 2023 Microsoft deal that was the centerpiece of Musk’s lawsuit. Musk could have brought the same law…

>Musk could have brought the same lawsuit in 2019 or 2021, meaning his claims were untimely for the 3 year statute of limitations. Why is a hypothetical ground for this decision? "You didn't complain immediately the first time you got robbed, therefore all the robbing since then is covered by a statute of limitation".

The statute of limitations exists to prevent unreasonable delay, to protect defendants from prejudice due to loss of evidence to the passage of time, and to recognize that people who are injured tend to complain immediately and not sit on their claims.

This case demonstrates why. Musk only complained after OpenAI was commercially successful with ChatGPT and after he started a competing effort. He repeatedly said “I do not know” and “I do not recall” on the stand, and argued that the passage of time made it hard for him to remember facts that would have been helpful for OpenAI.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#107

Post by paulpauper »

enraged_camel wrote: post #99
thesdev wrote: post #95

I hope he appeals. Not cheering for Musk, cheering for the fight.

There's nothing to appeal. Statute of limitations is... just that.

For criminal cases at least, the statue of limitations is not set in stone. But probably for civil, its much more cut and dry.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#108

Post by Calavar »

pizzafeelsright wrote: post #97
dragontamer wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You speak as if Elon Musk didn't buy tons of AI chips for full self driving (Dojo) and COMPLETELY flub it. It's the same as always. Musk himself is an awful business man. He relies upon buying the success of others and taking over. Outside of that, he's kind of awful. Initiatives started by Musk himself almost inevitably fail.

10 years returns S&P 500 (index of all those better than Musk): 261% Tesla: 2700% Disclaimer: My portfolio is 65% Tesla.

GME also beat the S&P 500 over the past 10 years. Is this evidence that Ryan Cohen is a business genius?

Tesla has been a meme stock for about five years now, maybe more. Its valuation correlates with Musk's abilities as a showman and media figure, not a businessman.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#110

Post by nebula8804 »

bonesss wrote: post #52
exe34 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, twitter ended up useful for him when he used it to buy his way into the US government and close down all the departments that were investigating his companies for breaking all sorts of laws.

As a business transaction: Twitters acquisition is among the worst deals in human history. As means to buy an election an Presidency: highly efficient use of capital with an undeniable short and long-term ROI.

Too early to write closing arguments on this. A vengeful future administration might make us realize that the entire transaction was a huge mistake.
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