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Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

chicagotribune.com

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Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#101

Post by davemel37 »

neya wrote: post #73

First of all, in my opinion, executing a frighteningly ambitious idea[1] is like performing inception. You need the simplest version of the idea for it to be "planted" in the user's mind. People aren't using DDG much not because of any difficulties in the browser, because they don't want to. This is a very lame excuse. Google never won its users because they were able to convince users to set their Search Engine as d…

I actually think their name is one of the strongest things going for them...and Google being more than a search engine to be the very reason Bing is gaining market share and brands like DDG actually have a shot at competing.

Regarding the name...it is unique and very MEMORABLE (repetition is one of the four mental glues.) It has just as few syllables as Microsoft, and is super easy to pronounce... From a branding perspective they are taking a very strong positioning play of being the Search Engine that respects privacy. Smart strategy if you ask me... to position themselves opposite the dominant brand with a hot button differentiation.

Regarding the trust factor, and the being locked in to google, those are actually both weaknesses of Google. The locked in issue is part and parcel with the privacy issue, which is the market DDG is trying to penetrate. Regarding Trust, I don't see why I need to trust a search engine to use it. In fact, the privacy thing again is the very reason I DON'T Trust Google...

People Use Google because Google focused on Search when all other search engines tried to be so much more. Once Google won the category (where people say, "Just Google It." They assumed they owned the market and started betting on the future convergence of search and social, etc... I actually think in 5 years from now, Google won't be the dominant player in search, although I do think Android will become a bigger money maker for them...

DuckDuckGo is doing a fine job with their name and brand strategy...up until this article and complaint which undermines their focused strategy. By complaining about Google, they appear to be in the game of competing as an equal search engine, not a DIFFERENT search experience, which is the play they need to make to win. It's the reason Burger King can't take over McDonalds...because they just claim to be better, not different. Pepsi on the other hand claims to be for the New Generation, Different than Coke which is classic, and the real thing. Just like Listerine has the brand of being more powerful than scope because they used the slogan,"The Taste You Hate Twice a Day." They said we are different, not better.

Human perception is near impossible to change... Complaining about monopolies is like saying, "we are better but they wont let us play."

If DDG wants to win, they need to pound hard about how they are different, and if they insist on complaining about Google, it should be consistent with their brand strategy and focus on how Google is more than search, and DDG is for when you just want to find what you are looking for with true privacy.

Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#102

Post by Surio »

davemel37 wrote: post #86
yegg wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, this is Gabriel Weinberg, the guy mentioned in the article. The main issue I have is with duck.com. A lot of people remember that we are a search engine "duck something" and so naturally try duck.com. As a result, there is a lot of confusion, e.g.: "I was telling someone about DuckDuckGo and they thought it was Duck.com and they went to Google. Is Google using this to find people who make the mistake to Duck.com…

I don't see how you can legitimately make a claim on a generic name. I also don't see how this is a monopoly issue. It is a trademark issue, which doesn't have much likelihood of winning. I think i'm gonna start my own search engine called searchsearchfind and than complain about CBS's search.com monopoly.

I don't think he is making any such claim. Like I mentioned elsewhere, if you follow his full explanation, it is Google that is actually capitalising on this confusion and redirecting users to their own engine.

Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#103

Post by blrgeek »

notatoad wrote: post #76
blrgeek wrote: post #23

Excellent PR efforts by DuckDuckGo. But not entirely sure that the arguments presented in this article are valid and would sway a technical crowd. Given how trivial it was just now for me to switch to DDG in Chrome, I don't see how that's anti-competitive.

Excellent PR? It sounds like a bunch of lame whining to me. I didn't use DDG before, but I at least respected their work. This is just weak. Google has done great things for the tech world by building chrome and android and releasing them as free and open source, to attempt to bring them down because you think it takes too many clicks to change the default search engine is shameful. Yegg, if you don't like it build y…

You, the HN reader, are not the target of this. Of course it ticks you (and me) off the wrong way - but your reaction is likely an unintended consequence!

It's excellent PR because it creates a coherent David Vs Goliath narrative that journos will buy and so will the bulk of the non-technical populace. A few more variations of this in different publications, and you'll see that it might seep into the public consciousness.

Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#104

Post by cpeterso »

yegg wrote: post #80
paulsutter wrote: post #50

This article is pure crybaby bullshit PR about a nonexistent problem. Does anyone care about DDG anyway? They're trying to solve a completely imaginary problem, and they haven't got a hope in hell of creating a viable search engine as that costs billions of dollars. Why is this article even on HN?

Hi, this is Gabriel Weinberg, the guy mentioned in the article. The main issue I have is with duck.com. A lot of people remember that we are a search engine "duck something" and so naturally try duck.com. As a result, there is a lot of confusion, e.g.: "I was telling someone about DuckDuckGo and they thought it was Duck.com and they went to Google. Is Google using this to find people who make the mistake to Duck.com…

Gabriel, have you considered rebranding DuckDuckGo? If the name is affecting user adoption or perception, it can be changed.

Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#105

Post by Surio »

davemel37 wrote: post #101
neya wrote: post #73

First of all, in my opinion, executing a frighteningly ambitious idea[1] is like performing inception. You need the simplest version of the idea for it to be "planted" in the user's mind. People aren't using DDG much not because of any difficulties in the browser, because they don't want to. This is a very lame excuse. Google never won its users because they were able to convince users to set their Search Engine as d…

I actually think their name is one of the strongest things going for them...and Google being more than a search engine to be the very reason Bing is gaining market share and brands like DDG actually have a shot at competing. Regarding the name...it is unique and very MEMORABLE (repetition is one of the four mental glues.) It has just as few syllables as Microsoft, and is super easy to pronounce... From a branding per…

Agree with everything you say, except ". By complaining about Google, they appear to be in the game of competing as an equal search engine,"

The nature of his exact complaint is that Google is capitalising on people's confusion with the name "Duck something", and then proceeding to capitalise on this confusion (in a somewhat sneaky way) by redirecting "potential DDG users" back to their own page.

>> they need to pound hard about how they are different

And this point is very difficult to achieve if the "market leader" is (sort of) preventing people from accessing you in the first place.

Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#106

Post by neya »

davemel37 wrote: post #101
neya wrote: post #73

First of all, in my opinion, executing a frighteningly ambitious idea[1] is like performing inception. You need the simplest version of the idea for it to be "planted" in the user's mind. People aren't using DDG much not because of any difficulties in the browser, because they don't want to. This is a very lame excuse. Google never won its users because they were able to convince users to set their Search Engine as d…

I actually think their name is one of the strongest things going for them...and Google being more than a search engine to be the very reason Bing is gaining market share and brands like DDG actually have a shot at competing. Regarding the name...it is unique and very MEMORABLE (repetition is one of the four mental glues.) It has just as few syllables as Microsoft, and is super easy to pronounce... From a branding per…

I just visited duckduckgo.com again (though full of hesitation) and as a designer I can tell you:

1) Their design is very complex and un-appealing with no simplicity that a SE should posses (For Eg. Google, Bing have a very simple design). They don't design Search engines to be simple because they like it that way, because they have invested a huge amount of money in researching about which colors and patterns work best. For example, DDG uses a red menu-bar on the top which tells me they haven't done as much research. I keep repeating this, but hopefully enough people will realize this:

DO NOT over-use red. Red is used to denote only important elements on a website (like a sign-up button), a call-to-action element (For example, compose button on Gmail). Look at DDG, they have a whole top-bar in full red.

2) As a general user, there is no difference between DDG and Google in my eyes because both have a sponsored link at the top. Both try to benefit from my searches, so I see no perceivable difference between Google and DDG. Now, I already know Google has a superior Search algorithm, period (from what I perceive). So, there is not a single reason for me as an end-user to use DDG over Google.

And one more - Look at the irony, even you reference them by DDG and not DuckDuckGo, whereas you reference Google by just Google and not by any other short form. This is exactly what I meant. Brand Naming is something that we don't even pay attention to, but plays a much much important role.

Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#107

Post by davemel37 »

Surio wrote: post #102
davemel37 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how you can legitimately make a claim on a generic name. I also don't see how this is a monopoly issue. It is a trademark issue, which doesn't have much likelihood of winning. I think i'm gonna start my own search engine called searchsearchfind and than complain about CBS's search.com monopoly.

I don't think he is making any such claim. Like I mentioned elsewhere, if you follow his full explanation, it is Google that is actually capitalising on this confusion and redirecting users to their own engine .

The confusion (if it really exists) has nothing to do with Google. It has to do with DDG not protecting their turf. When they chose their name, they could have chosen thousands of others. This isn't and shouldn't be Google's problem and quite frankly comes off as a weakness that DDG ran with this story.

Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#109

Post by adventured »

ernesth wrote: post #95
adventured wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did Google win because users were able to easily switch the default search engine in IE to Google? No. I remember the first times I used Google. It was like magic compared to AltaVista, Yahoo (Inktomi), etc. DDG has no edge to offer, no 'magic.'

I remember the first times I used Google, there was no default search engine, hence a far more open situation.

Switching search engines is ridiculously easy. There aren't many things related to tech so easy; no sign up, no user names or passwords necessary, no network effects required, no need to share your FB or Twitter account. Just go, type, and search.

Firefox managed to severely dent IE in a similar default situation, despite needing to be downloaded and installed, which is a huge effort wall compared to using a search engine. Ditto for Chrome.

If you build a superior engine I have no doubt users will type the address in manually or bookmark it or even go through the couple clicks it takes to switch defaults.

Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#110

Post by notatoad »

blrgeek wrote: post #103
notatoad wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent PR? It sounds like a bunch of lame whining to me. I didn't use DDG before, but I at least respected their work. This is just weak. Google has done great things for the tech world by building chrome and android and releasing them as free and open source, to attempt to bring them down because you think it takes too many clicks to change the default search engine is shameful. Yegg, if you don't like it build y…

You, the HN reader, are not the target of this. Of course it ticks you (and me) off the wrong way - but your reaction is likely an unintended consequence! It's excellent PR because it creates a coherent David Vs Goliath narrative that journos will buy and so will the bulk of the non-technical populace. A few more variations of this in different publications, and you'll see that it might seep into the public conscious…

Me, the HN reader, is who DDG markets to. They try to sell themselves as the search engine for the informed user - the people who care about privacy and understand how google tracks you. The "bulk of the non-technical populace" will see an article about search engines and skip over it. They will never in their lifetime change any setting on their computer away from the default.
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