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At least 25 Flock cameras have been destroyed in five states since April 2025

stateofsurveillance.org

101–110 of 373 posts

Re: At least 25 Flock cameras have been destroyed in five states since April 2025

#101

Eventually toll cameras and a consortium of private businesses will have this tech and then game over. Better to use this energy and legislate the behavior you want. Never let the enemy decide the terms.

Do you think the same people smashing the cameras have the skills to legislate? Or even to organize and lead a movement?

They are very different skill sets.

Re: At least 25 Flock cameras have been destroyed in five states since April 2025

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likely yea, but with them at least some idiots too stupid to drive get some degree of punishment.

I don't think punishment benefits society in any way whatsoever.

I get where you're coming from here- I also don't see justice as an inherent good. If somebody kills somebody else, the death penalty will only increase the number of victims by one. It does nothing to undo the crime. Karma isn't real.

But you have to think about second order effects. The knowledge that you may be punished afterwards serves as a disincentive for doing the wrong thing now. It may be preferable to convince everyone that they would be punished without actually doing the punishment, but it's not possible. Apart from the death penalty, punishments also can directly teach an individual not to commit the crime again.

Re: At least 25 Flock cameras have been destroyed in five states since April 2025

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Violence is only the answer if you're willing to cost a few thousands (sometimes millions) of lives.

That’s an instant debate winner if we can’t differentiate between breaking cameras and mass death.

Yes, breaking cameras never results in positive changes. Mass death sometimes does.

Re: At least 25 Flock cameras have been destroyed in five states since April 2025

#104
post #96
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kinda like saying "Throwing the British's tea into Boston harbor will only make us subject to harsher terms." The reality is the vast majority of social progress in the last millenium was achieved with force and threat of force. I find this weird revisionist "violence is never the answer" trope recited as a fact that needs no justification to be incredibly weird and unreliable.

You could use this Boston Tea Party logic for virtually any violent action no matter how dumb or counterproductive.

To be fair to the loyalists, a lot of people were making this point at the time. Tally ho, gents.

Re: At least 25 Flock cameras have been destroyed in five states since April 2025

#107

This website and article promote the destruction of property. If you disagree with something, you can engage civily, encourage people to vote with you, run for elections. Violence is not the answer.

"Violence" is a word normally used when the victim is sentient, but I'll go along with it:

Violence against inanimate objects is morally neutral. Violence against instruments of violence is self-defense. Violence against oppression is how the USA was founded.

A corporation has unfair political advantages including a deep purse, an unlimited lifespan, and more recently all the rights of personhood. The only advantage the people have is their numbers, and yeah numbers of votes would be great, I agree, but when votes are ignored, or never solicited in the first place, it often comes down to numbers of pitchforks, as it were.

Re: At least 25 Flock cameras have been destroyed in five states since April 2025

#108
post #97

I've warmed to LLM-generated/assisted writing in general but this kind of stuff is just lazy and is basically "I got Claude to say something I agree with and then made it pretty".

How is this relevant to the article?

The article was written with a premise into a prompt for Claude, which then wrote the whole thing.

Re: At least 25 Flock cameras have been destroyed in five states since April 2025

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think punishment benefits society in any way whatsoever.

I get where you're coming from here- I also don't see justice as an inherent good. If somebody kills somebody else, the death penalty will only increase the number of victims by one. It does nothing to undo the crime. Karma isn't real. But you have to think about second order effects. The knowledge that you may be punished afterwards serves as a disincentive for doing the wrong thing now. It may be preferable to conv…

Justice is distinct from punishment. Someone who is wronged should be made whole, but I don't think society benefits from violating the violator.

Re: At least 25 Flock cameras have been destroyed in five states since April 2025

#110

[flagged]

Bringing up the highest-crime city as an example is using a well-known outlier tp prove a point. Is that valid in this context? I think Flock cameras are being used not just in high-crime areas, but in many places. One would have to determine that surveillance helped with crime in these areas to make that point valid. And more importantly, one has to ask, why it's NOT being used to deter more crime in high-crime areas, and being used in areas where there's no crime.

The point is, where's the documented proof that they are helping. What we know is that people are still reporting crime in places where Flock cameras were present. Does that negate the effect? No, but it's just as valid as the point you brought. Which is to say, little to not all.

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