Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent • Hacker News Board

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#101

Post by remixff2400 » Wed, May 13, 2026, 9:12 PM UTC

twoWhlsGud wrote: post #44

john_strinlai wrote: post #5

huh, i had no idea princeton specifically disallowed proctors, and instead relied on an honor system. seems... like a poorly thought out system, especially given: " 29.9 percent of respondents reported that they had cheated on an assignment or exam during their time at Princeton. 44.6 percent of senior respondents reported knowledge of Honor Code violations that they chose not to report. " crazier is the people prote…

As someone who went there (albeit many decades ago) I can tell you FWIW when I was there folks took it seriously. I literally knew of no one who ever cheated on an exam. And I'm pretty sure that anyone I knew who observed cheating would have taken it seriously enough to bring it to the process. It was pretty much a fixture of how students thought about things. So it worked (near as I could tell) back then. But instit…

I'd wager the main difference between "many decades ago" and mid 2000s onwards is the perceived stakes of college. My time in college (around that time) was perceived by most as "make or break": either you did well in college, or you were doomed to a sub-standard lifestyle (not to mention the debt of college tuition).

Obviously, whether this was true or not is a whole discussion, but the attitude did lead to a lot more cheating (due to desperation) than I'd imagine past generations had.

A midterm being worth 25-33% of a grade, plus some classes only being offered in fall or spring semesters meant a bad test could roughly cost you tens of thousands of dollars, since the next time you could retake the class would be in a year, and it often was a prerequisite for another class. It just leads to an environment that encourages desperate "survival" behavior.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#102

Post by afavour » Wed, May 13, 2026, 9:13 PM UTC

lll-o-lll wrote: post #64

kibwen wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fish rots from the head. It's a sucker's game to aspire to selflessly serve the greater good when the most powerful people in the land are brazenly corrupt pedophiles. In other words: monkey see, monkey do.

> The fish rots from the head. The old adage that the people elect the governance they deserve; comes to mind. The concepts of Virtue, Honour, Duty, and Justice have been declining in the West over a very long period (this is not a US specific thing). The rotting head reflects the rotting society. > It's a sucker's game to aspire to selflessly serve the greater good when the most powerful people in the land are braze…

> You don’t act honourably because that will “get you ahead”. You act honourably because it is right.

As much as I would like to believe that’s true I don’t think it is.

You act honourably because society incentivises you to. To act dishonourably is to be disadvantaged, to be shamed, to be cast out. That is the part that’s missing today.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#103

Post by afavour » Wed, May 13, 2026, 9:14 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #21

kibwen wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fish rots from the head. It's a sucker's game to aspire to selflessly serve the greater good when the most powerful people in the land are brazenly corrupt pedophiles. In other words: monkey see, monkey do.

> fish rots from the head Does it? Did it? We elected the "brazenly corrupt pedophiles." This question seems complex and important enough to not be resolved with a truism.

The brazenly corrupt also own the vast media ecosystem that can help swing elections. Should we all know better? Probably. But they control the education system too, so…

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#104

Post by nkrisc » Wed, May 13, 2026, 9:14 PM UTC

9x39 wrote: post #90

WillPostForFood wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or it is a dilution of the culture through mass media, social media, and immigration from countries with different values.

[flagged]

Not if your criticism is meant to scapegoat immigrants for homegrown American-made problems.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#105

Post by pixl97 » Wed, May 13, 2026, 9:14 PM UTC

lll-o-lll wrote: post #64

kibwen wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fish rots from the head. It's a sucker's game to aspire to selflessly serve the greater good when the most powerful people in the land are brazenly corrupt pedophiles. In other words: monkey see, monkey do.

> The fish rots from the head. The old adage that the people elect the governance they deserve; comes to mind. The concepts of Virtue, Honour, Duty, and Justice have been declining in the West over a very long period (this is not a US specific thing). The rotting head reflects the rotting society. > It's a sucker's game to aspire to selflessly serve the greater good when the most powerful people in the land are braze…

> You act honourably because it is right.

Well, and because it's not typically fatal in very short order.

The problem comes in when honor makes you a target to erase by people more powerful than you. Being dead right gets you nowhere.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#106

Post by shadowtree » Wed, May 13, 2026, 9:14 PM UTC

applfanboysbgon wrote: post #87

shadowtree wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moral code is downstream from culture and not every culture sees cheating as a moral failing. As Princeton's demo skewed hard into a more international student body, the underlying cultural assumptions have shifted. The Christian extension of the Ninth Commandment from not bearing false witness to a blanket ban on lying is unique. Islam has explicit exceptions through Taqiyya, Hinduism gets nuanced with dharma and ad…

It is rather disappointing to see a take as unsubtle as "white people are pure and honest God-fearing Christians and Asians are dirty heathens with no concept of morality" on this site.

That is not what I wrote - there was no judgement, just that other cultures weigh cheating morally different.

It is all moralities. There is no absolute one.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#107

Post by regnull » Wed, May 13, 2026, 9:15 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #10

Combined with the increasing acceptance of shoplifting [1] and unprecedented corruption and criminality among our national leaders, it's hard not to read this as a moral page turning on American culture. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/04/hasan-piker-jia-to...

People can still behave honorably despite all this. It's easy (and wrong) to justify someone's dishonorable behavior by pointing to the leaders.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#108

Post by 9x39 » Wed, May 13, 2026, 9:15 PM UTC

applfanboysbgon wrote: post #87

shadowtree wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moral code is downstream from culture and not every culture sees cheating as a moral failing. As Princeton's demo skewed hard into a more international student body, the underlying cultural assumptions have shifted. The Christian extension of the Ninth Commandment from not bearing false witness to a blanket ban on lying is unique. Islam has explicit exceptions through Taqiyya, Hinduism gets nuanced with dharma and ad…

It is rather disappointing to see a take as unsubtle as "white people are pure and honest God-fearing Christians and Asians are dirty heathens with no concept of morality" on this site.

Do you have any data to support your disappointment? There seems to be data supporting the GP's observation, which is different than your crude strawman.

It's not unreasonable to look for fire when you smell smoke.

"A 2016 study of more than 100 UK universities by The Times found that non-EU students were four times more likely to be caught cheating than UK and EU students. In the US, they were found to be five times as likely to be caught cheating than their local peers, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis of data from 14 leading US colleges." https://studyinternational.com/news/the-complex-problem-of-a...

"Public universities in the U.S. recorded 5.1 reports of alleged cheating for every 100 international students, versus one report per 100 domestic students, in a Wall Street Journal analysis" https://www.wsj.com/articles/foreign-students-seen-cheating-...

In 2015, 4,540 international students were enrolled at Iowa. Of those, 2,797 were from China. That’s 9 percent of the school’s student body. Most or all of the students accused of cheating are Chinese nationals. https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/college-...

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#109

Post by applfanboysbgon » Wed, May 13, 2026, 9:15 PM UTC

9x39 wrote: post #95

applfanboysbgon wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in some left-wing corners of the commentariat, is out; flagrant disregard of the social contract is in. Interesting that this is posed as the American left disregarding the social contract. I think you could make a pretty good case that the American right disregarded the social contract first in electing an extremely destructive pedophile who starts wars for reasons that can't even be articulated, pardons war crimi…

Is this an announcement of engaging in these behaviors? What will change once you no longer feel bound to this contract?

To be clear, I do not live in America. Not every place in the world has wantonly abandoned the social contract.

Everything changes when people no longer feel bound to it, so it's an outcome you should rather desire to avoid. Some examples are the shoplifting mentioned in the article, Luigi Mangione, or the guy who threw molotovs at Altman's mansion. The justice system is a mutual agreement to forsake violence owing to the belief that conflicts and grievances can be mediated in a peaceful manner. If that belief dies, if people believe the justice system and government can not be trusted to deliver justice to violators of the social contract and compensation to the wronged, then people will take matters into their own hands by any means necessary. It is not a pretty state of affairs, but perhaps the people who initially disregarded the contract might've considered that before disposing of it.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#110

Post by a34729t » Wed, May 13, 2026, 9:16 PM UTC

applfanboysbgon wrote: post #87

shadowtree wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moral code is downstream from culture and not every culture sees cheating as a moral failing. As Princeton's demo skewed hard into a more international student body, the underlying cultural assumptions have shifted. The Christian extension of the Ninth Commandment from not bearing false witness to a blanket ban on lying is unique. Islam has explicit exceptions through Taqiyya, Hinduism gets nuanced with dharma and ad…

It is rather disappointing to see a take as unsubtle as "white people are pure and honest God-fearing Christians and Asians are dirty heathens with no concept of morality" on this site.

No, it is culture, not race. A friend of mine (half asian, half white) and by happenstance devot christian got his graduate degree at a top 3 school in the US, and he was shocked the international student brazenness in cheating. He reported it and it was brushed under the rug, and this severely disillusioned my friend. Every professor I know reports this cultural difference.

And obviously we see it with SDE interivews with 1point3acres and the other "interview study" sites and AI tools.