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The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

theatlantic.com

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Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#101

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

aspenmartin wrote: post #45

Ignoring CEO predictions, can anyone point to any major revolutionary technology that had a net negative impact on quality of life and employment statistics? AI is an incredibly powerful technological shift in our way of life but where is the net employment hit taking place? Unemployment numbers remain stable. Revolutions like this do create widening inequality while also increasing long run productivity. Yes inequal…

Even if some tech were presented, people would just nitpick and quibble, saying the tech wasn't actually revolutionary, didn't truly have a net negative impact on quality of life, didn't truly have a net negative impact on employment, or the timeframe of the latter two.

Personally, I'd nominate gunpowder, DDT, leaded gasoline, and nuclear fission.

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#102

Post by jsbisviewtiful »

thomascgalvin wrote: post #5

People like Altman and Musk are saying that Universal Basic Income will be necessary once AI has fully automated away most jobs, but at the same time they aggressively fight against any kind of tax policy that would allow UBI to function. I am convinced that their talk of UBI is just handwaving; they're trying to convince us that there will be a solution to the destruction of the economy as we know it, so that we'll…

> I am convinced that their talk of UBI is just handwaving

Well, they are sociopaths so that checks out. What I find even more horrible is that they still somehow have an almost religious following, but it's also becoming clear they may be helping to flood the internet with bots that bolster their talking points against any push back. They especially have an audience here that defends them while they push an agenda to de-power and bury the working class.

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#103

Post by mrhottakes »

dehrmann wrote: post #100
mrhottakes wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon's companies famously pay very little in taxes, he spent last year attempting to gut the federal government, he complains constantly about how much he pays in taxes, and he's been very vocal about California's recent efforts to tax very wealthy people.

The California Billionaire Tax is a bad idea. It's not that wealth taxes can't work (most of the US taxes property just fine), it's that taxes need to be fair and predictable. The phase-in is too narrow and its implementation is too arbitrary. Why $1B? Why $5%? Why won't CA voters hit up billionaires again?

Maybe, maybe not, but it's an example of Elon taking a side on taxes, per the original post.

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#104

Post by mrhottakes »

ToValueFunfetti wrote: post #95
onedognight wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Support for Trump, or even Republicans writ large, means support for reducing taxes (both estate and income) on the wealthy, while increasing them on consumers (via tariffs). Musk has been an ardent supporter of Trump.

While I don't disagree with your conclusion, this line of reasoning makes no sense in a two party state where each party offers a menu of positions. Supporters are forced to make tradeoffs and pretending otherwise just gives you an incoherent picture of reality.

In which states does the Republican party support increasing taxes?

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#105

Post by electroly »

thomascgalvin wrote: post #5

People like Altman and Musk are saying that Universal Basic Income will be necessary once AI has fully automated away most jobs, but at the same time they aggressively fight against any kind of tax policy that would allow UBI to function. I am convinced that their talk of UBI is just handwaving; they're trying to convince us that there will be a solution to the destruction of the economy as we know it, so that we'll…

Just because a hypocrite says something doesn't mean that thing is wrong. If a drug addict tells you not to use drugs, they're still right about that. UBI is the solution, isn't it? Capitalism both requires everyone to have a job while at the same time providing no guarantee that jobs are available. The idea doesn't get tainted just because the words left the mouths of a few rich hypocrites. We have to do it despite them.

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#106

Post by mrhottakes »

empath75 wrote: post #38
otikik wrote: post #11

My main problem is this: - If (big If) AI actually replaces workers, then we have a problem, because lots of folk lost their jobs - If AI doesn't replace workers, then we have a recession, because a lot of the US economy now sits on top of corporations betting on it. And this will tank the economy and lots of folk will lose their jobs It feels that the only path forward is a narrow one where AI removes some jobs , bu…

There is a third and, to me, so much more likely outcome that it's not even worth talking about the other two: AI makes workers more productive and unlocks more economic activity.

In life it's important to consider when our personal opinions might be incorrect and what the consequences may be.

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#107

Post by bluecheese452 »

lorecore wrote: post #96
bluecheese452 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your magic robot is magic enough you own anything you want. You pay with the oldest currency in the world. Might.

I don’t think pillaging the earth’s natural resources (even more than we already do) is going to go down well.

Agreed.

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#108

Post by randycupertino »

ToValueFunfetti wrote: post #88
randycupertino wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given how resistant American voters and politicians are against any sort of welfare or social assistance I doubt UBI would ever be possible here. Remember the backlash against "ObamaPhones" and "welfare queens!" We can't even get mandatory paid parental leave approved; UBI would be a non-starter. Americans are fine with low taxes for billionaires and don't mind high inequality as one of their core beliefs is that upw…

You do have to imagine the political environment where unemployment is rapidly climbing among the middle class rather than the current status quo if your intent is to accurately predict the future.

I'm skeptical. Even during the great depression FDR was only able to get work programs approved that assigned jobs like Conservation Corps, Public Works and WPA rather than just handing out cash.

And even then amongst bank collapses, failed farms, starving people and catastrophic unemployment there was STILL heavy opposition to any government assistance programs because there is a very deep fear entrenched in the American psyche that government aid creates dependency and weakens individual responsibility. There is a widespread false narrative that any sort of government help is leftist socialism and communism.

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#109

Post by bluecheese452 »

randycupertino wrote: post #59
thomascgalvin wrote: post #5

People like Altman and Musk are saying that Universal Basic Income will be necessary once AI has fully automated away most jobs, but at the same time they aggressively fight against any kind of tax policy that would allow UBI to function. I am convinced that their talk of UBI is just handwaving; they're trying to convince us that there will be a solution to the destruction of the economy as we know it, so that we'll…

Given how resistant American voters and politicians are against any sort of welfare or social assistance I doubt UBI would ever be possible here. Remember the backlash against "ObamaPhones" and "welfare queens!" We can't even get mandatory paid parental leave approved; UBI would be a non-starter. Americans are fine with low taxes for billionaires and don't mind high inequality as one of their core beliefs is that upw…

When the checks had trumps name on them during the pandemic they loved it. They don’t hate welfare on principle, they hate it when the propaganda tells them to hate it.

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#110

Post by watwut »

electroly wrote: post #105
thomascgalvin wrote: post #5

People like Altman and Musk are saying that Universal Basic Income will be necessary once AI has fully automated away most jobs, but at the same time they aggressively fight against any kind of tax policy that would allow UBI to function. I am convinced that their talk of UBI is just handwaving; they're trying to convince us that there will be a solution to the destruction of the economy as we know it, so that we'll…

Just because a hypocrite says something doesn't mean that thing is wrong. If a drug addict tells you not to use drugs, they're still right about that. UBI is the solution, isn't it? Capitalism both requires everyone to have a job while at the same time providing no guarantee that jobs are available. The idea doesn't get tainted just because the words left the mouths of a few rich hypocrites. We have to do it despite…

UBI is not solution. Not even in theory. A system where majority is powerless will be the system where majority is oppressed and that is what it will be.

It is a lie pushed by people who go out of their way to be cruel whenever they can.

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