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Scientists warn Atlantic current at risk of shutting down

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Re: Scientists warn Atlantic current at risk of shutting down

#101

Post by amanaplanacanal »

pier25 wrote: post #67
zurfer wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Techno optimist here who expects the following to make a big contribution to reducing human made future climate change: better batteries+solar/wind, nuclear fusion, self driving cars (we'll need to manufacture less cars for the same amount of miles humanity drives), AI helping with better resource allocation in general (hopefully). The answer can't be, let's just consume 10x less. We have to engineer our way out of i…

Ironically what is pushing many countries to a faster adoption of renewables is not climate change but the recent Iran conflict. Yes tech can help but implementation depends on human nature.

Blowing up all the world's oil fields would probably do a lot to focus people's attention.

Re: Scientists warn Atlantic current at risk of shutting down

#102

Post by runarberg »

causal wrote: post #23

I think climate change is a compelling crisis but I find these types of “could maybe happen according to some models” type of catastrophic scenarios a little frustrating because they soak up a lot of attention with scary headlines, reinforcing hopelessness in those who care while providing ammunition to skeptics when the catastrophe doesn’t materialize. It’s also easy to question methodology for anyone who has done a…

I would argue the opposite. The number one frustration I have with climate change is the continued and persistent inaction by our world leaders. I would argue that modeling out worst case scenarios is more likely to reach our leaders and finally break this decades long inaction.

I think generally the effects climate skeptics have over climate policy is overstated. And corporations with vested interest in being able to continue releasing massive amounts of CO2 into our atmosphere have much more say over climate policy then climate skeptics. Now these companies often do weaponize climate skeptics in order to lobby government into continued inaction, but that behavior will continue regardless of how scientists frame their climate models.

Re: Scientists warn Atlantic current at risk of shutting down

#104

Post by bastawhiz »

grey-area wrote: post #45
causal wrote: post #23

I think climate change is a compelling crisis but I find these types of “could maybe happen according to some models” type of catastrophic scenarios a little frustrating because they soak up a lot of attention with scary headlines, reinforcing hopelessness in those who care while providing ammunition to skeptics when the catastrophe doesn’t materialize. It’s also easy to question methodology for anyone who has done a…

The risk was 5% and is now above 50% according to experts in the field. Given the significant consequences this is worth paying attention to.

The GP didn't say not to pay attention to it. Clearly people are.

The point is that it's unactionable. The people who care could all pour their life savings into climate action and commit suicide to cancel all future carbon footprint and it still wouldn't move the needle. Even if the Democrats in the US took over both branches of Congress, the white house, and the supreme court, they wouldn't move the needle. There isn't any practical action any ordinary person could take.

So why are we writing about it for general consumption? Convince billionaires, politicians, oil execs, other scientists, literally anyone with the ability to do anything. If we're at the point the research claims, trying to get people to go vegan or fly less often isn't even shaving off fractions of a percent.

Re: Scientists warn Atlantic current at risk of shutting down

#105

Post by mlhpdx »

postflopclarity wrote: post #80
Eji1700 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which the average person doesn’t know because this is the 50th headline they’ve read on how we’re screwed today that hasn’t happened. They’ve blown their attention budget for the layman and aren’t getting it back unless someone serious guides their attention.

> the 50th headline they’ve read on how we’re screwed today that hasn’t happened the things are happening though. e.g. if you read a headline in the 70s that said something like "ski seasons will shorten by an average of 1 day per year, leading to only 5 inches of snow water equivalent in Colorado resorts by 2026, and eliminating the economic viability of skiing in the northeast by 2060" that would have been complete…

Maybe, but that’s a far stride or two from the “doomsday” pitched at laypeople.

Re: Scientists warn Atlantic current at risk of shutting down

#106

Post by watwut »

john_alan wrote: post #55
adrian_b wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am old enough to have witnessed how the climate has completely changed in Europe, where I live. In the same place where I live now, when I was young there was permanent snow cover for 3 to 4 months. During the last 10 years, there have been years with no snow and in the others a little snow has been present for 3 or 4 days of a year, when it melted the second day after falling. I have not used again my winter boots…

What you've said is emotionally compelling, but scientifically very weak. Personal recollection is selective and location-specific. You’ve described a memory, not established a mechanism. What you perceive as change isn't macro, it's micro. It doesn't mean macro change isn't happening, but it's not happening on our timescale. I'm 50 FWIW.

Meteoroligista says thw same thing. They have measurements, cause humanity was able to measure and record 30 years ago.

What has no value is to pretend it is not happening because ones favorite ideological movements said so.

Re: Scientists warn Atlantic current at risk of shutting down

#107

Post by jwilber »

john_alan wrote: post #55
adrian_b wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am old enough to have witnessed how the climate has completely changed in Europe, where I live. In the same place where I live now, when I was young there was permanent snow cover for 3 to 4 months. During the last 10 years, there have been years with no snow and in the others a little snow has been present for 3 or 4 days of a year, when it melted the second day after falling. I have not used again my winter boots…

What you've said is emotionally compelling, but scientifically very weak. Personal recollection is selective and location-specific. You’ve described a memory, not established a mechanism. What you perceive as change isn't macro, it's micro. It doesn't mean macro change isn't happening, but it's not happening on our timescale. I'm 50 FWIW.

You can paste this exact response under your other post, as well. Emotionally compelling, scientifically weak. Worth nothing.

But also, what you wrote is just wrong. There are plenty of measurable, significant, ood effects in the last few decades on the climate and its impact.

Here’s one study onglacier retreat over the last 20 years.

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2021GL09...

And here’s a paper on the effects of the mechanism:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-025-02282-5

I’m sure you’ll read them earnestly.

Re: Scientists warn Atlantic current at risk of shutting down

#108

Post by SoftTalker »

Tyrubias wrote: post #97
SoftTalker wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much agree. Nature will fix the climate, after it eliminates (a large number of) the humans that are causing the problem. That's really the only way.

This is a cold-hearted way to think about it. The countless people who will suffer are not the ones causing the problem. The problem is caused by the billionaires willing to sacrifice human life and the environment for profit. They actively sow climate skepticism and encourage defunding of climate research to protect their bottom line. When extreme weather events kill millions, those billionaires will be safe in thei…

Kings have always sacrificed the common folk for their own benefit. This is also the way of human society. The experience of our own current lifetimes is quite the exception.

Re: Scientists warn Atlantic current at risk of shutting down

#109

Post by GolfPopper »

MSFT_Edging wrote: post #33
kocsonya wrote: post #2

Hot take on HN, but techno-optimism sounds so stupid when it comes to climate change... You can't engineer macro climate/ecology, since capital has no interest in human and it's surrounding environment balanced cohabitation.

The forest where the community hikes has no value unless the trees are turned into paper. All to say, Capital at large seeks out the profit. Until climate change effects the profit considerably, mitigation will be the path less traveled. The only real way to approach this problem is to reduce consumption across the board which as you might guess, isn't profitable.

>The only real way to approach this problem is to reduce consumption across the board which as you might guess, isn't profitable.

We need a human civilization that is run for the benefit of human beings, not paper-clip maximizing overlords.

Re: Scientists warn Atlantic current at risk of shutting down

#110

Post by lm28469 »

zurfer wrote: post #52
kocsonya wrote: post #2

Hot take on HN, but techno-optimism sounds so stupid when it comes to climate change... You can't engineer macro climate/ecology, since capital has no interest in human and it's surrounding environment balanced cohabitation.

Techno optimist here who expects the following to make a big contribution to reducing human made future climate change: better batteries+solar/wind, nuclear fusion, self driving cars (we'll need to manufacture less cars for the same amount of miles humanity drives), AI helping with better resource allocation in general (hopefully). The answer can't be, let's just consume 10x less. We have to engineer our way out of i…

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