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America's carpet capital: an empire and its toxic legacy

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Re: America's carpet capital: an empire and its toxic legacy

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I served in an executive role for a non-Federal government organization. Think a senior director, not a political position. My stock holdings had to be disclosed, and were and still are publicly viewable. They audit them and explore potential conflicts. When I was promoted, I had to justify and certify potential conflicts due to long existing stock holdings of myself and my son, which were subject to monitoring and I…

>That’s required for public confidence. The federal rules are stricter.

You're trying to hide behind a bureaucratic mumbo jumbo, which is how the likes on Nancy Pelosi can constantly beat the stock market by a wide margin, and yet not raise any legal eyebrows.

Not putting you in the same basket as her, just saying that just because there are rules in place, doesn't mean they have the desired preventing effect you talk about, because it's the enforcement that's lacking. Just because the policies keep YOU honest, doesn't mean they apply to everyone else.

>Unfortunately, you’re displaying the nihilist, uninformed perspective which put fascists in power. By saying the president is corrupt, but so is everybody else you’re implicitly supporting and endorsing the behavior. That’s what they want.

You're soo offtopic that it's laughable. Sure buddy, everyone with a different opinion than you is a fascist, only you have the right answer to everything from within your bubble.

Why do you think that special forces officer was arrested for insider trading but not Trump's friends? Now tell us again, how there's no legal double standards, and your legal mumbo jumbo prevents insider trading.

Re: America's carpet capital: an empire and its toxic legacy

#102
post #49

It's so convenient that all these people waited until retirement to speak out, but they also said they weren't doing anything wrong? Zero morals by anyone in this story.

It is easy to be ethically and morally responsible, after one becomes rich, after one is retired. Until then, it is enough to follow the law just enough to not get fined. Actually, even that is a tall ask these days - fines are just cost of doing business. It sucks that it is this way, but society seems to have largely accepted it

But also, what if you have those ideas and thoughts from the beginning and during the entire time, yet also build your life on those systems you despise, then you use your "won" resources to fight against them, isn't that at least better than the alternatives?

Re: America's carpet capital: an empire and its toxic legacy

#103
I guess a little bit of background is helpful, which most people don’t realize, about carpet production. A lot (a LOT) of carpet is some variant of polyester since it’s just a really nice durability + cost + stain resistance mix (although the latter is one of its big weaknesses comparatively, important to note). Thus there is significant demand for stain guard options.

Compounded on top of that is because although you can dye the polyester before it is extruded, this is the firm minority of carpet produced. Maybe a quarter or less? Usually you will dye it before spinning it into yarn or before tufting it (weaving it into the backing basically). However, it is often cheaper especially for solid carpet to essentially dunk the whole finished carpet into a vat for dyeing, or run it through a glorified conveyor belt to do much the same. I’d hazard a decent guess that the latter two methods are the worst offenders for pollution for obvious reasons. What’s a bit of a pity then is that it seems to me that this isn’t really inevitable (although if we stop entirely that’s a perfect recipe for some other country to undercut us even if they inherit the long term dangers too).

With that said, the CRI (Carpet and Rug Institute) is almost the epitome of what you’d imagine an industry group to be. And 3M/DuPont are, well, you know. So I’m sure the article doesn’t really exaggerate there.

Finally I’d say that the upshot for all of us should be that regulation and pressure work. There was a calculation made whether intentionally or not, explicitly or implicitly, that if this came out to be bad then the big chemical companies could be blamed (and could further be reliably counted on to have engaged in outright unethical activity that makes blaming them a somewhat valid strategy too).

Source: sold carpet for a few years and was actually curious about the industry unlike many of my peers

Re: America's carpet capital: an empire and its toxic legacy

#104

It's so convenient that all these people waited until retirement to speak out, but they also said they weren't doing anything wrong? Zero morals by anyone in this story.

Please don't fulminate on HN. The guidelines make it clear we're trying for something better here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: America's carpet capital: an empire and its toxic legacy

#105
post #86

It's so convenient that all these people waited until retirement to speak out, but they also said they weren't doing anything wrong? Zero morals by anyone in this story.

[flagged]

Intergenerational rage like this is not OK on HN, and dehumanizing language towards anyone is clearly against the guidelines. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: America's carpet capital: an empire and its toxic legacy

#107
post #87
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China's problems with PFAS are substantially worse than the US. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/398603137_Global_in...

The difference is that when China actually cracks down things change relatively quickly. In 10 years this group [1] will be lower than in the US [1] https://www.bmj.com/content/393/bmj.s771

Yea, when the communist party thinks an industry should change it changes in the way the communist party says. Of course it is often not without side-effects.

Re: America's carpet capital: an empire and its toxic legacy

#108
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see any mention there of the dosage at which these toxic effects occur. That would be necessary to determine if the amount found in the environment is a concern or not.

That's silly. The fact that it is toxic makes it a concern, and the fact that it is a concern means that if you're selling it you should find out yourself about the specifics. It's like saying that you're not responsible for stealing a wallet because you didn't know exactly how much was in it.

A lot of things are toxic at high doses, yet have essentially no effect at low doses. The linear no-threshold model is a simplification that rarely matches reality.

Re: America's carpet capital: an empire and its toxic legacy

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I served in an executive role for a non-Federal government organization. Think a senior director, not a political position. My stock holdings had to be disclosed, and were and still are publicly viewable. They audit them and explore potential conflicts. When I was promoted, I had to justify and certify potential conflicts due to long existing stock holdings of myself and my son, which were subject to monitoring and I…

>That’s required for public confidence. The federal rules are stricter. You're trying to hide behind a bureaucratic mumbo jumbo, which is how the likes on Nancy Pelosi can constantly beat the stock market by a wide margin, and yet not raise any legal eyebrows. Not putting you in the same basket as her, just saying that just because there are rules in place, doesn't mean they have the desired preventing effect you tal…

It’s really simple. The president is a criminal backed by an authoritarian political party whose members of Congress refuse to do their jobs.

That’s the difference between a Spiro Agnew or a Richard Nixon. Crooks, but without the same type of cronyism.

Re: America's carpet capital: an empire and its toxic legacy

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even an issue of job scarcity. I have worked enough blue-collar jobs to know that there exist people for whom technical work is a non-starter. Not that they are somehow dim and incapable of learning engineering, but "work" that is not done through labor, that does not show in a tangible way a day's effort… is anathema to them.

>It's not even an issue of job scarcity. Still it's supply and demand issue. The west has had 20-30 years of grooming the youth that going to college is the right path to middle class lifestyle and blue collar jobs are for losers who are too stupid to study. You can't be shocked when the supply demand reverses. South Park even had an episode mocking this, with plumbers being the new tech bros, and tech bros being une…

"Some engineers want to work in hardware, firmware, mechanical jobs, because the output is tangible…"

Ha ha, the giddy feeling a software engineer feels when they write a few lines of assembly on a Motorola 68HC11 and get an LED to turn on…

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