Live data from Hacker News

Mistral built a $14B AI empire by not being American

forbes.com

101–110 of 187 posts

Re: Mistral built a $14B AI empire by not being American

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> $14B in AI terms is like 'second-best VSCode fork' tier money Yep, and the comparison relies on key people believing the valuations. Lots of mature companies will want their providers to be reasonably sheltered from the fallout of a coming US AI bubble burst.

How would that work? What it means for the US AI bubble to burst is that tremendous amounts of inference capacity become open for pennies on the dollar. I don't see how Mistral is or could be sheltered from that.

Isn't running the models for end users the biggest cost at the moment?

Re: Mistral built a $14B AI empire by not being American

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For a lot of business customers, EU based hosting is not optional They still use US clouds that can have information pulled by the US government.

This is changing somehow. At least on a surface. For example Amazon have created European subsidiary completely managed by Europeans under European company thus under it's local jurisdiction.

Unless it is air gapped which it is not there is no way to protect Amazon's developed and owned software stack from reporting back to headquarters.

Re: Mistral built a $14B AI empire by not being American

#103
post #51

It seems that the winner takes all market for tech will eventually go away. Countries and regions want to develop their own good enough solutions that is not dependent on America.

Has nothing to do with geography and everything to do with marginal cost. Software and hardware is winner takes all because the marginal cost of producing a copy of a software product is near zero, and the marginal cost of producing a hardware chip is also very low. This is not true of AI models. Both inference and training have high marginal costs, since the compute demand is intense.

Re: Mistral built a $14B AI empire by not being American

#104
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is changing somehow. At least on a surface. For example Amazon have created European subsidiary completely managed by Europeans under European company thus under it's local jurisdiction.

Unless it is air gapped which it is not there is no way to protect Amazon's developed and owned software stack from reporting back to headquarters.

Sure there is: contracts, laws and prison time can ensure that doesn't happen.

Re: Mistral built a $14B AI empire by not being American

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For a lot of business customers, EU based hosting is not optional They still use US clouds that can have information pulled by the US government.

This is changing somehow. At least on a surface. For example Amazon have created European subsidiary completely managed by Europeans under European company thus under it's local jurisdiction.

You are incorrect:

1. the 2018 CLOUD Act mandates US companies — and their subsidiaries — to provide information to the US government on demand, regardless of where the data is stored

2. FISA secret courts prevent companies from even saying they where summoned, or telling anyone who or what the case was about (including canaries).

So you won't ever know if your data was handed over to the US government.

Re: Mistral built a $14B AI empire by not being American

#106

I think it’s important to note that, at least for now, Mistral uses the big American cloud providers for inference [0]. [0] https://trust.mistral.ai/subprocessors

Yes and they are open about it. That is why they are building their own data centers in Paris and other places.

That’s true, but as their model quality is behind Kimi K2.6 or Deepseek v4, I believe it makes more sense to consume those Chinese models from a European hosting company like Scaleway, than to consume Mistral’s models hosted on US cloud providers, except if you see that Mistral subscription as a kind of investment into Mistral for them to buy infra in the future. That is, if your goal is to “consume” AI on European soil.

Re: Mistral built a $14B AI empire by not being American

#107

In my opinion, being "Not American" or "Not Chinese" is not a good business model long-term. At some point, businesses will choose the option that provides the most value. I'm very skeptical that Mistral will survive long-term. Edit: I hear the commenters to this post. However, Mistral still relies on American chips. If there is truly a divorce between Europe and the US such that relying OpenAI or Anthropic is not an…

American chips depend on European-made Extreme Ultraviolet lithography machines, which are among the most complex machines ever built and rely on European high-tech mirrors, etc... Everything is then assembled in Taiwan. This industry is so interconnected that nothing can be done independently, at least not in the Western part of the world.

The main point should not be the hardware or software itself, because these are just tools that can eventually be obtained. The real issue is development and its cost. US companies now have to cover substantial capital requirements for developing entirely new business models, capital that would likely never be accumulated in Europe. In the past, they competed globally, but in a more fragmented world this is no longer the case. As a result, the risk associated with such investments is higher because potential reward is smaller.

Mistral does not have to compete in the same way. It lacks both the ability and the intention to fight on the global stage against Silicon Valley capital. Instead, it can wait for the industry to stabilize and for business models to mature, then adopt them.

Over time, there will be standardized ways to train models to a certain quality, and key technologies will become less opaque. This is already happening. A similar pattern occurred in Europe with hosting services, for example Hetzner.

Mistral is not playing the same game. It is also unlikely that US attitudes toward Europe will change significantly even with a different administration, that Russia will stop trying to undermine the EU, or that China will become a fair and friendly player. All of this supports the case for local providers of critical infrastructure, which benefits companies like Mistral or similar European counterparts.

Re: Mistral built a $14B AI empire by not being American

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> $14B in AI terms is like 'second-best VSCode fork' tier money Yep, and the comparison relies on key people believing the valuations. Lots of mature companies will want their providers to be reasonably sheltered from the fallout of a coming US AI bubble burst.

How would that work? What it means for the US AI bubble to burst is that tremendous amounts of inference capacity become open for pennies on the dollar. I don't see how Mistral is or could be sheltered from that.

> tremendous amounts of inference capacity become open for pennies on the dollar.

They can't be operated for pennies on the dollar, though. The likely current status is that these products are subsidized to disregard model cost, and part of the operating cost.

If the bubble bursts, inference that can't be made profitable when factoring in operating costs will be scraped, not sold for pennies.

Re: Mistral built a $14B AI empire by not being American

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We have a few more picky customers in Germany. Describe making business in Europe with one evergreen sentence

Because companies here actively want to avoid breaking the law, as opposed to the U.S where breaking the law is just a matter of paying some $ to the grifter in chief? I always find it funny when Europeans being proactive about that sort of stuff is somehow a bad thing from Americans point of view. Like wanting decent human rights and not having to bend over to megacorps is something we should not have. Though, if th…

[flagged]

Re: Mistral built a $14B AI empire by not being American

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because companies here actively want to avoid breaking the law, as opposed to the U.S where breaking the law is just a matter of paying some $ to the grifter in chief? I always find it funny when Europeans being proactive about that sort of stuff is somehow a bad thing from Americans point of view. Like wanting decent human rights and not having to bend over to megacorps is something we should not have. Though, if th…

>Because companies here actively want to avoid breaking the law Haha, yeah sure. What other fairy tales you gonna tells us next? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens#2005_and_continuing:_w... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirecard_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parmalat_bankruptcy_timeline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus#Bribery_allegations https…

Thank you for your brilliant demonstration of survivorship bias.

How many people were punished for Enron? For the subprime crisis? Etc.

In the US, you just give a little money for the president's ballroom and you are pardoned. Or you settle out of court because your justice system is crap.

Post reply on HN