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Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

road.cc

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Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#101

Post by curiousgal »

Slow_Hand wrote: post #83

As a cyclist and a driver it’s not immediately apparent which Waymo behavior I prefer for passenger dropoffs/pickups. While it’s annoying in the moment to pedal around a parked car, I’m fine with it. However, having a Waymo dropping off clear of the bike lane sounds good, until the exiting passenger accidentally doors a cyclist who isn’t prepared for that possibility. I suppose I’d rather suffer the inconvenience of…

Even if you go around the parked car, you still risk getting doored on the other side.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#102

Post by Arubis »

spankalee wrote: post #59

Cities that want to keep cars out of bike lanes should keep all cars out of them, autonomous or not, by ticketing them. But they don't, so taxis and delivery drivers stop in them. That's traffic enforcement's fault. Given that human drivers stop in bike lanes, Waymo then has a tradeoff: 1) Be the only ones to follow the letter of the law, break a lot of people's expectations, and catch backlash for disrupting traffic…

Tickets are a discouragement. But physical barriers actually work.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#103

Post by Stratoscope »

I won't comment on the pick up / drop off situation, but another important scenario is right turns. In California, drivers are legally required to merge into the bike lane when making a right turn. This is for the safety of the bicyclists, to avoid the dreaded "right hook" collision.

Dylan Taylor, a beloved Menlo-Atherton High School football coach, was killed last year in one of these collisions:

https://www.almanacnews.com/atherton/2025/05/08/m-a-athletic...

(Scroll down to the comment by "T R" which describes better than the article itself what likely happened.)

Unfortunately, I've almost never seen a driver follow this law. Everyone studiously avoids the bike lane and then cuts across it.

The bike lane marker changes from a solid white stripe to a dashed line as you approach an intersection. This is supposed to be a hint to merge into the bike lane. It isn't working.

I post a reminder on Nextdoor once or twice a year about this. I'm taking the opportunity to also post it here for my California neighbors.

It would be interesting to see if the Waymo Driver follows this law. My bet is that it does.

The San Francisco Bike Coalition has an excellent page on this topic:

https://sfbike.org/news/bike-lanes-and-right-turns/

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#104

Post by avidiax »

Slow_Hand wrote: post #83

As a cyclist and a driver it’s not immediately apparent which Waymo behavior I prefer for passenger dropoffs/pickups. While it’s annoying in the moment to pedal around a parked car, I’m fine with it. However, having a Waymo dropping off clear of the bike lane sounds good, until the exiting passenger accidentally doors a cyclist who isn’t prepared for that possibility. I suppose I’d rather suffer the inconvenience of…

You can get doored on either side of the car, and when you are forced to pass, you have to enter the traffic lane, which pressures you to maintain speed.

Whereas in the bike lane, you can slow down a bit anticipating that a door may open.

Waymo does at least warn the occupants if there's a vehicle or bicycle approaching.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#105

Post by notatoad »

spankalee wrote: post #59

Cities that want to keep cars out of bike lanes should keep all cars out of them, autonomous or not, by ticketing them. But they don't, so taxis and delivery drivers stop in them. That's traffic enforcement's fault. Given that human drivers stop in bike lanes, Waymo then has a tradeoff: 1) Be the only ones to follow the letter of the law, break a lot of people's expectations, and catch backlash for disrupting traffic…

Per discussions elsewhere on the internet about this story, it appears that “the letter of the law” in London, where is article is about, is that all drivers are allowed to enter the bike lane to drop off passengers.

As much as I might disagree with that, it’s crazy to expect Waymo to obey a law that doesn’t even exist.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#106

Post by Arubis »

nandomrumber wrote: post #78
spankalee wrote: post #59

Cities that want to keep cars out of bike lanes should keep all cars out of them, autonomous or not, by ticketing them. But they don't, so taxis and delivery drivers stop in them. That's traffic enforcement's fault. Given that human drivers stop in bike lanes, Waymo then has a tradeoff: 1) Be the only ones to follow the letter of the law, break a lot of people's expectations, and catch backlash for disrupting traffic…

Share the road. It works both ways.

It does not work both ways.

One party to this is a high-inertia, potentially high-velocity metal box that, in an impact with the other party, typically results in an property insurance claim.

The other is a low-inertia flesh bag that, in an impact with the other party, results in a medical insurance claim, and possibly a funeral.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#107

Post by ghaff »

SilverElfin wrote: post #81
loxodrome wrote: post #68

Bicycles and automobiles should not share the same roads at all.

Yes the bikes belong on the sidewalk, restricted to walking speeds for safety.

Which isn't unusual in Japan. You see bicycles sometimes trying to force themselves through swarms of people going at maybe 1 mile per hour.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#108

Post by spankalee »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #75
spankalee wrote: post #59

Cities that want to keep cars out of bike lanes should keep all cars out of them, autonomous or not, by ticketing them. But they don't, so taxis and delivery drivers stop in them. That's traffic enforcement's fault. Given that human drivers stop in bike lanes, Waymo then has a tradeoff: 1) Be the only ones to follow the letter of the law, break a lot of people's expectations, and catch backlash for disrupting traffic…

I’m pretty sure it went something like “so where are we allowed to pickup and drop off riders” and the city couldn’t answer. The problem isn’t really enforcement, the problem is that there are simply no alternatives, and the city shies away from enforcement because they know that. If they started enforcing the rules strictly, people would again ask questions that they aren’t prepared to answer. If you compare that to…

Blocking the right car lane for a drop off is perfectly legal outside of No Stopping zones. This is how taxis have always worked.

It's just that other drivers get pissed off if you block a car lane when there's a bike lane next to it. That needs to be trained away by enforcing the rules.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#109

Post by watwut »

spankalee wrote: post #59

Cities that want to keep cars out of bike lanes should keep all cars out of them, autonomous or not, by ticketing them. But they don't, so taxis and delivery drivers stop in them. That's traffic enforcement's fault. Given that human drivers stop in bike lanes, Waymo then has a tradeoff: 1) Be the only ones to follow the letter of the law, break a lot of people's expectations, and catch backlash for disrupting traffic…

> 1) Be the only ones to follow the letter of the law, break a lot of people's expectations, and catch backlash for disrupting traffic.

Plenty of drives dont use bike lanes. So, no, this is false issue. Waymo can simply act like literal majority of the drivers.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#110

Post by spankalee »

morkalork wrote: post #98
spankalee wrote: post #59

Cities that want to keep cars out of bike lanes should keep all cars out of them, autonomous or not, by ticketing them. But they don't, so taxis and delivery drivers stop in them. That's traffic enforcement's fault. Given that human drivers stop in bike lanes, Waymo then has a tradeoff: 1) Be the only ones to follow the letter of the law, break a lot of people's expectations, and catch backlash for disrupting traffic…

Humans are flawed and need punishment to correct their behaviour. Waymos are autonomous and can have their behaviour corrected with a software update. These are not the same.

It can't be so uneven. The other drivers will react irrationally if only a few cars obey those rules. Try doing your own drop offs in the car lane, when there's a bike late there, with traffic behind you. They'll often react dangerously.
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