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Engineers suck at finding the right jobs

matt.aimonetti.net

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Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs

#101

Post by barry-cotter »

rayiner wrote: post #96
rhizome wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or "Partner" in law.

Is "partner" an example of title inflation? Law firms do have a lot of "partners" (anywhere from 20% to 50% of lawyers at a large firm), but I think it's more a matter of law firms just having naturally flat structures. Each partner operates pretty autonomously in terms of bringing in business, managing associates, running cases, etc. Levels of organization above "partners" are more facilitative and strategic (where…

Not really but some firms have tried. There are equity and non equity partners at some firms, for example. If you eant more detail than you will ever use use google Adam Smith, Esq.

Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs

#102

Post by jordanthoms »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #18
acuozzo wrote: post #8

> Now is an awesome time to be a software engineer (probably best time ever). I don't agree with this statement at all, as it's getting harder and harder to find low-level work (e.g., C and *asm) and that's the __only__ kind of programming that I enjoy doing. I'll start looking for another career when I have to consider putting words like ``full-stack'' or ``cloud'' on my resume in order to find work.

Then start looking at companies that primarily produce hardware. Trust me, it's getting harder and harder to find people who even know what a pointer is. To the point where we simply assume the people we hire won't and we'll just have to abstract it away for them.

I studied software engineering in New Zealand, but the course is under the Electrical Engineering department so we also took a few courses on processor design, logic gates, assembly etc.

Is it actually common for CS grads in the states to not have covered that stuff?

Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs

#103

Post by mylittlepony »

confluence wrote: post #99

Oh look another X sucks at blah. I always reverse these sentences to get interesting ideas. What if blah sucks at X - namely, what if jobs suck at finding the right engineers. Now we're talking :D This is a problem in HR not engineering - whose sole purpose is to find good engineers, pay them well enough so that they stay, make an environment good enough to keep them happy, and put them on the right projects to maxim…

What does Valve do?

Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs

#104

Post by vonmoltke »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #18
acuozzo wrote: post #8

> Now is an awesome time to be a software engineer (probably best time ever). I don't agree with this statement at all, as it's getting harder and harder to find low-level work (e.g., C and *asm) and that's the __only__ kind of programming that I enjoy doing. I'll start looking for another career when I have to consider putting words like ``full-stack'' or ``cloud'' on my resume in order to find work.

Then start looking at companies that primarily produce hardware. Trust me, it's getting harder and harder to find people who even know what a pointer is. To the point where we simply assume the people we hire won't and we'll just have to abstract it away for them.

I hear what you are saying. In my last job I worked on real-time signal processing code, and there was a definite lack of software engineers who understood the low-level code and the various target platforms. In fact, many of the software developers, myself included, were EEs.

Where I see a problem though, and this goes for my former employer, is that the requirements for the jobs often extend beyond just being proficient with low-level development. You say you would like to "find people who even know what a pointer is". However, I read job reqs like the ones from the company rayiner posted require "extensive" experience in some particular niche of low-level coding, in addition to low-level/real-time development in general. That makes me think its easy enough to find people that companies can afford to be picky, even if they have to wait a little while.

So, if it really is that hard to find people, why write reqs and recruit in such a way as to discourage or reject people who have some experience, but not the "right" experience?

Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs

#105

Post by vonmoltke »

jordanthoms wrote: post #102
HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then start looking at companies that primarily produce hardware. Trust me, it's getting harder and harder to find people who even know what a pointer is. To the point where we simply assume the people we hire won't and we'll just have to abstract it away for them.

I studied software engineering in New Zealand, but the course is under the Electrical Engineering department so we also took a few courses on processor design, logic gates, assembly etc. Is it actually common for CS grads in the states to not have covered that stuff?

My university required CS majors to take logic design and microprocessor architecture. Beyond that, it was up to the student to choose concentrations, of which computer architecture and systems programming were choices.

Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs

#106

Post by confluence »

mylittlepony wrote: post #103
confluence wrote: post #99

Oh look another X sucks at blah. I always reverse these sentences to get interesting ideas. What if blah sucks at X - namely, what if jobs suck at finding the right engineers. Now we're talking :D This is a problem in HR not engineering - whose sole purpose is to find good engineers, pay them well enough so that they stay, make an environment good enough to keep them happy, and put them on the right projects to maxim…

What does Valve do?

Makes lots of money without HR.

Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs

#108

Post by bcbrown »

jvehent wrote: post #97

Don't look for the right job. Look for the right company, and evolve once you're in.

That's what I did in my last job search. It's paid off wonderfully. The first three months weren't especially exciting, but now I'm working on very interesting problems, and growing a ton.

Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs

#109

Post by ProCynic »

mylittlepony wrote: post #103
confluence wrote: post #99

Oh look another X sucks at blah. I always reverse these sentences to get interesting ideas. What if blah sucks at X - namely, what if jobs suck at finding the right engineers. Now we're talking :D This is a problem in HR not engineering - whose sole purpose is to find good engineers, pay them well enough so that they stay, make an environment good enough to keep them happy, and put them on the right projects to maxim…

What does Valve do?

Flat structure. Everyone just works on whatever they think is important. http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/economics/why-valve-or-what-d...

Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs

#110

Post by mattetti »

michaelochurch wrote: post #90

OP: what do you think of open allocation? http://www.quora.com/Software-Development-Methodologies/What... Personally, I think it's the only long-term solution to this bilateral matching problem: engineers can't find good work, employers can't find good engineers. The problem is that most software engineers are indeed unskilled (and therefore few companies are willing to start interesting projects that might make use…

I have mixed feelings about open allocation. I think it's very dependent on the context and the company's vision. @ChuckMcM wrote something very interesting explaining two types of engineers, some who are self driven and have an agenda and the ones who don't. I don't think that as engineers we are particularly good at understanding the business value we can bring to a company and how to improve a product. I think that some engineers work better with a lot of freedom, but most don't. I think that actually a good solid layer of "proper" management is way more useful. A good manager is someone who doesn't get in your way but help you realize your full potential while following the company's vision. Granted, that's not what most managers do, but I do think that most of us need some leadership, some directions to help us focus. To summarize, I think that we need strong leaders and some flexibility at the engineering level dependent on each individual temperament, the company culture and the team's objectives.
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