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California has more money than projected after admin miscalculated state budget

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Re: California has more money than projected after admin miscalculated state budget

#101

Post by datsci_est_2015 »

oatmeal1 wrote: post #39
sgc wrote: post #6

Given that school budgets are absolutely gutted with mass layoffs this year and next, and the miscalculation looks like 2/3 of the budget shortfall, hiding such a basic and impactful error requires a much better explanation than I see in that article. It looks like it was done to stifle debate about budget allocations, which would be necessary in the circumstances.

The education system seems one of the only places where vastly improving technology over the past 30 years has not translated to cost savings or improved outcomes.

Isn’t this just Baumol’s cost disease?

Gains in efficiency due to technology improvement, as far as I know, are always attributable to fewer people being able to do more / produce more. There are some things that will never have gains in efficiency. Technology will not reduce the number of players on a football field from 11 to 10.

Re: California has more money than projected after admin miscalculated state budget

#102

Post by datsci_est_2015 »

apparent wrote: post #81
lostlogin wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It turns out that our kids learn better from humans than machines. Ever dealt with a kid who has had too much screen time? It’s fucking awful.

True, a kid who has had too much screen time is not good, just like a kid who has had too much lunch is not good. That doesn't make lunch bad, it just means the kid needs the right amount. Screens can be helpful for kids (mine have learned a ton from Khan Academy and other online tools), but kids will have different thresholds. Some will only be able to learn a little from screens because they can't work independentl…

Your anecdata has a gigantic blind spot of you being a capable and engaged parent that monitors and guides your children’s screen time to be educationally productive. That time is a luxury, and your expertise is rare.

To take it back to the lunch analogy that you provided, it’s a bit like saying, “I don’t know why everyone’s kids are hungry at school, I pack a nutritious and filling lunch that I know my kids enjoy every morning.”

Re: California has more money than projected after admin miscalculated state budget

#103

Post by sgc »

legitster wrote: post #74
sgc wrote: post #6

Given that school budgets are absolutely gutted with mass layoffs this year and next, and the miscalculation looks like 2/3 of the budget shortfall, hiding such a basic and impactful error requires a much better explanation than I see in that article. It looks like it was done to stifle debate about budget allocations, which would be necessary in the circumstances.

$2 billion dollars is a pretty small piece of the $90 billion the state pays towards schools. The budget cuts are because enrollment is down.

I already posted this, but the budget cuts are also because Federal funding was up to historic level due to COVID and has been cut significantly below baseline by the current administration. California should not calculate school funding the way it does anyways. A teacher is paid the same regardless of whether their class size is 20 or 30, whether some kids are home sick or not. So a more complex allocation system that takes this into account is absolutely required. Failure to do so is intentionally under-funding schools.

My point was simply that it is shady to hide the miscalculation, and I indicated the point in the budget under severe stress right now I would have liked to see funded should the appropriate discourse have been possible. The cause of the stress is irrelevant. 2 billion goes a long way when everything is being cut. It could save 2 billion in services.

Re: California has more money than projected after admin miscalculated state budget

#104

Post by skoskie »

datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #101
oatmeal1 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The education system seems one of the only places where vastly improving technology over the past 30 years has not translated to cost savings or improved outcomes.

Isn’t this just Baumol’s cost disease? Gains in efficiency due to technology improvement, as far as I know, are always attributable to fewer people being able to do more / produce more. There are some things that will never have gains in efficiency. Technology will not reduce the number of players on a football field from 11 to 10.

I've always heard it called the Pregnancy Principle – or maybe it's just a corollary.

"Nine women cannot do in one month what one woman can do in nine months".

Re: California has more money than projected after admin miscalculated state budget

#105

Post by apparent »

datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #102
apparent wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, a kid who has had too much screen time is not good, just like a kid who has had too much lunch is not good. That doesn't make lunch bad, it just means the kid needs the right amount. Screens can be helpful for kids (mine have learned a ton from Khan Academy and other online tools), but kids will have different thresholds. Some will only be able to learn a little from screens because they can't work independentl…

Your anecdata has a gigantic blind spot of you being a capable and engaged parent that monitors and guides your children’s screen time to be educationally productive. That time is a luxury, and your expertise is rare. To take it back to the lunch analogy that you provided, it’s a bit like saying, “I don’t know why everyone’s kids are hungry at school, I pack a nutritious and filling lunch that I know my kids enjoy ev…

Logically speaking, this is incorrect. OP said that humans teach kids better than machines, full stop. To disprove this claim, I do not need to show that all kids learn better from machines, just that some do. I have shown this, and even admitted that it doesn't work for all kids.

Also, I didn't need to monitor/guide my kids so they could learn from AoPS or Khan Academy. Those platforms are self-guided. But regardless, my kid learned pretty much zero from school math, so the threshold for "better than the teacher" was very very low.

Re: California has more money than projected after admin miscalculated state budget

#106

Post by datsci_est_2015 »

apparent wrote: post #105
datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your anecdata has a gigantic blind spot of you being a capable and engaged parent that monitors and guides your children’s screen time to be educationally productive. That time is a luxury, and your expertise is rare. To take it back to the lunch analogy that you provided, it’s a bit like saying, “I don’t know why everyone’s kids are hungry at school, I pack a nutritious and filling lunch that I know my kids enjoy ev…

Logically speaking, this is incorrect. OP said that humans teach kids better than machines, full stop. To disprove this claim, I do not need to show that all kids learn better from machines, just that some do. I have shown this, and even admitted that it doesn't work for all kids. Also, I didn't need to monitor/guide my kids so they could learn from AoPS or Khan Academy. Those platforms are self-guided. But regardles…

I’m going to sidestep your pedantry and focus on why we’re actually having this conversation: it is obvious from data and observations at scale that children struggle to learn meaningfully in the presence of technology, i.e. screens, in the same way that children learned with educators of the quality that taught previous generations (higher salaries).

Techno-Utopianism is such a grating ideology, especially when thrown into the ring alongside all of the other garbage that education experts have to deal with when trying to enact meaningful change in the education system.

Re: California has more money than projected after admin miscalculated state budget

#107

Post by guzfip »

estearum wrote: post #92
fhn wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bring food same time everyday? Here's a weekly food menu, repeat weekly? Whew, that's a lot of work. Email me if you need me. I'll be in Hawaii. Counselors aren't qualified to deal with mental illness.

you can tell this is someone who hasn't been in an operations role^ and sure, counselors aren't qualified to deal with mental illness but what exactly do you believe is a child's path to qualified help if their parents are unengaged or the source of the problems?

Isn’t this was social workers are for?

Re: California has more money than projected after admin miscalculated state budget

#108

Post by apparent »

datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #106
apparent wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Logically speaking, this is incorrect. OP said that humans teach kids better than machines, full stop. To disprove this claim, I do not need to show that all kids learn better from machines, just that some do. I have shown this, and even admitted that it doesn't work for all kids. Also, I didn't need to monitor/guide my kids so they could learn from AoPS or Khan Academy. Those platforms are self-guided. But regardles…

I’m going to sidestep your pedantry and focus on why we’re actually having this conversation: it is obvious from data and observations at scale that children struggle to learn meaningfully in the presence of technology, i.e. screens, in the same way that children learned with educators of the quality that taught previous generations (higher salaries). Techno-Utopianism is such a grating ideology, especially when thro…

If basic logic is pedantry in your book, I think we're done here. Looks like you're new here, but perhaps won't last long if you're allergic to logic.

Re: California has more money than projected after admin miscalculated state budget

#109

Post by nxobject »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #44
Supermancho wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oregon's kicker law is a textbook example of bad economic policy, sadly You must be talking about non-economic textbooks, otherwise this makes no sense.

Oregon has a biennial budget, so some Oregon employee predicts how much money Oregon will earn over the next 2 to 3 years (which is basically impossible to do), and then Oregon leaders have to come up with a spending plan equal to or less than that revenue estimate. However, Oregon's costs have no relation to the revenue that the state predicted it would get, so it is constrains the solution space when unforeseen cos…

I appreciate you adding your experience here – I'm curious, just with the amount of knowledge you have of Oregon's fiscal oddities (e.g. biennial budgeting): are you an Oregonian yourself?

I feel that I'm part of a sector of Oregonians that, because of our mini-recession and constant cuts, is suddenly having to learn about a lot of fiscal oddities that are finally catuching up with us. (e.g. how centralized education funding is, for example.)

Re: California has more money than projected after admin miscalculated state budget

#110

Post by hollerith »

sgc wrote: post #42
dmitrygr wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Given that school budgets are absolutely gutted What now? https://edsource.org/2026/how-california-compares-to-other-s... https://educationdata.org/public-education-spending-statisti...

It is just a fact that California schools are laying off a large percentage of personnel and getting rid of many programs. Pink slips by the thousands have been sent out that will take effect in a couple months at the end of the school year. If you don't know that, you are not informed. Those links are completely irrelevant because they are out of date. Budget had temporarily increased due to the availability of COVI…

Your link claims that the Trump admin is illegally impounding $1 billion that should go to CA.

But that is only a tiny fraction of CA spending on K-12, which (according to a comment in this thread) amounted to $121 billion in 2021.

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