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The abandoned war: Why no one is stopping the genocide in Sudan

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Re: The abandoned war: Why no one is stopping the genocide in Sudan

#101

Post by ahhhhnoooo »

Drakim wrote: post #46
throwaway27448 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can develop a country without extracting its wealth.

Can you? When our economic system's only driver is "extracting wealth", can we actually develop a country without it? The extraction of wealth isn't some unfortunate byproduct, it's a central cog in the machine of what makes it operate. Money is invested for returns.

You two are using different definitions for "can". You are using it in the "is it probable or realistic to expect it" sense and the parent poster is using it in the "is it mechanically possible" sense.

I think it's possible to imagine a way in which a country could be delivered money and expertise to develop with no expectation of return on investment. (One needs only read conquest of bread to see I'm not alone in believing such a thing is mechanically possible.)

But I also agree it's vanishingly unlikely.

Re: The abandoned war: Why no one is stopping the genocide in Sudan

#102

Post by [deleted] »

goodcanadian wrote: post #37

I feel like I have seen better analysis of this elsewhere. In a nutshell, it is not simply a civil war. Regional actors are involved as a proxy war: Saudi Arabia against the UAE, for example (who are also having a proxy war in Yemen). And Egypt against Ethiopia. The wikipedia article covers some of the complexity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudanese_civil_war_(2023%E2%80... EDIT: This is what I am thinking of: htt…

[deleted]

Re: The abandoned war: Why no one is stopping the genocide in Sudan

#103

Post by renewiltord »

papa0101 wrote: post #55
csense wrote: post #47

Let's be honest. If someone did send in the troops to restore order, people would be screaming "How dare you invade a sovereign country" or "You're only doing this because you want oil" or "The President wants to make Sudan the 51st state" or "You're wasting money and soldiers' lives messing around in a place most of us can't even put on a map" or "You're just doing whatever the Jews tell you to do."

then bloody stop sending troops to all other countries under whatever pretexts.

[flagged]

Re: The abandoned war: Why no one is stopping the genocide in Sudan

#104

Post by ahhhhnoooo »

cucumber3732842 wrote: post #56
throwaway27448 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can develop a country without extracting its wealth.

So work for free? Who would invest in facilities, develop workforces, etc, without a payoff?

I would. I regularly do.

One of the underpinning core beliefs of anarchist theory is "wellbeing for all". Every human deserves the best conditions we can collectively give each other, and we should all be working not for our individual enrichment, but for the enrichment of us all.

Some people genuinely believe that helping others get bigger quality of life is more important than helping themselves get rich. It's not impossible to believe that such a community, if it grew large enough, would extend that belief to spaces like factories and workforces.

Re: The abandoned war: Why no one is stopping the genocide in Sudan

#105

Post by goodcanadian »

b450 wrote: post #98
goodcanadian wrote: post #37

I feel like I have seen better analysis of this elsewhere. In a nutshell, it is not simply a civil war. Regional actors are involved as a proxy war: Saudi Arabia against the UAE, for example (who are also having a proxy war in Yemen). And Egypt against Ethiopia. The wikipedia article covers some of the complexity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudanese_civil_war_(2023%E2%80... EDIT: This is what I am thinking of: htt…

There is a section of the article covering precisely this, headed "The external actors: arms to both sides"

It is not covered in anywhere the same level of detail, in my opinion.

Re: The abandoned war: Why no one is stopping the genocide in Sudan

#106

Post by LightBug1 »

nradov wrote: post #83
LightBug1 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Which international peacekeepers? They have to come from somewhere. How would they be armed? Would they have artillery and air support or small arms only? What would the rules of engagement be?

What do you think international peacekeepers means?

Where do you think they've come from before?

How do you think they've been armed before?

What have the rules of engagement in previous peacekeeping missions been?

I notice you skipped the piece about pressuring the key players, which is much closer to a solution than what you chose to focus on.

Any more questions? Because that seems to be all you have. Pop over to Claude or GPT. I heard it might have some answers.

Re: The abandoned war: Why no one is stopping the genocide in Sudan

#107

Post by watwut »

Drakim wrote: post #46
throwaway27448 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can develop a country without extracting its wealth.

Can you? When our economic system's only driver is "extracting wealth", can we actually develop a country without it? The extraction of wealth isn't some unfortunate byproduct, it's a central cog in the machine of what makes it operate. Money is invested for returns.

What you described is not "developing the country". It is "colonization and extraction of wealth".

Re: The abandoned war: Why no one is stopping the genocide in Sudan

#108

Post by watwut »

renewiltord wrote: post #103
papa0101 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

then bloody stop sending troops to all other countries under whatever pretexts.

[flagged]

I do not know who it is "we", but Trump is certainly NOT trying to stop sending soldiers abroad. Instead, it is using them to attack Venezuela, Iran, Cuba, boats on the see cause killing is fun and to threaten Greenland. Iran is completely pointless and expensive war in particular. Also, pressuring Ukraine to give up more territory then Russia took is NOT "stopping to mess in other peoples affairs" either.

Also, what Vance is doing in Europe is not "stopping to mess in other peoples affairs" but instead "meddling into politics trying to make far right happen".

Trade war with Canada and numerous attempts to "punish" other countries for prosecuting corruption are also meddling.

Re: The abandoned war: Why no one is stopping the genocide in Sudan

#109

Post by ahhhhnoooo »

boxed wrote: post #60
ahhhhnoooo wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, it's not constrained to Gaza. The genocide against Palestinian people is occurring across the nation of Israel.

Palestinian muslim arabs are 20% of Israels population. Remind me how many percent of Palestine, Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, are Jewish? This is the worst genocide ever. They even have representation in Knesset. They serve in the IDF.

I can tell you are unable to approach this topic rationally.

No one made the claim this is the worse genocide ever. It does not need to rise to that bar to be a genocide. Your hyperbole is not a good faith effort to discuss the topic. And the whataboutism is a deflection. Genocide is bad everywhere it's occurring. Right now it's occurring in many places, one of which is within Israel/Palestine. If you believe it's also happening elsewhere, we should condemn those as well, not absolve the actions of Netanyahu.

Re: The abandoned war: Why no one is stopping the genocide in Sudan

#110

Post by hollerith »

atwrk wrote: post #70
hollerith wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I deplore current Israeli policies, but Ukraine isn't disguising its war fighters as civilians like Hamas is, which is an important qualifier to your numbers.

But Russia is doing exactly that systematically for years now, disguising as civilians. I'm also pretty sure Hamas isn't disguising themselves as children, who make up the largest share of the civilian victims.

Someone said that Russia has conducted its invasion in a way as to keep civilian casualties to only 5% of Ukrainian casualties. In evaluating that number, it is relevant that Russia's task is made easier by Ukraine's adherence to the widely accepted principle that a war fighter should wear the uniform of the side he is fighting for.

In contrast, for the purposes of this thread, it is irrelevant that "Russia is doing exactly that systematically for years now, disguising as civilians" (to quote you).

This isn't a contest to see how many negative things we can say about the Russians or the Israelis. Or at least that is not a coversation I would be interested in.

I think Israel's actions since Oct 2023 have been deplorable and disgusting. But that doesn't mean I am interested in no nuance at all in discussing how deplorable and disgusting.

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