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Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#101

Post by unethical_ban »

gcanyon wrote: post #16

There are two separate issues here: 1. will this work (will the UK stop smoking) 2. is this something the UK government should be doing Setting aside 1 and looking at 2, it seems silly to me to point out that other things (alcohol) that cause problems and are not being restricted. You take the wins where you find them, and the government isn't a magical force that can impose its will on the people arbitrarily. This i…

My suspicion is that alcohol is mind-altering in ways smoking is not, and has a large effect on social interactions in business and romance and coping with the drudgery of daily life.

Take away smoking from the next generation and they move to caffeine or vapes. Take away alcohol and there are revolutions and religious extremist revivals.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#102

Post by forinti »

olalonde wrote: post #78

What about tourists and foreigners? Most smokers can't go more than a few hours without smoking... This will surely lead to a large black market.

Will this market be significant? This would surely affect a very small percentage of visitors.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#103

Post by balderdash »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #38
afavour wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see smoking as a separate category owing to the existence of second hand smoke. Smoking in a room with other people adversely affects those people. I think government is the correct body to be intervening in that scenario.

That's not a separate category, that's the general principle in a free society: There is a limit to "doing what you want" when it impacts others/imposes on them. That's why smoking is already heavily regulated in order to limit and minimise the impact that your choice has on others.

I think you could make the same argument about alcohol and drugs (road fatalities + some absurd number of convicted criminals were high/drunk when perpetrating the crime) - I’m not taking a side either way but I don’t think smoking is unique in terms of harm to society there besides the user.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#104

Post by lokar »

noduerme wrote: post #73
gcanyon wrote: post #16

There are two separate issues here: 1. will this work (will the UK stop smoking) 2. is this something the UK government should be doing Setting aside 1 and looking at 2, it seems silly to me to point out that other things (alcohol) that cause problems and are not being restricted. You take the wins where you find them, and the government isn't a magical force that can impose its will on the people arbitrarily. This i…

>> the government isn't a magical force that can impose its will on the people arbitrarily You must live in a democracy. If you ever lived in a country where the government curtailed freedoms by fiat, you'd understand that it can and it will. I happened to be living in Vietnam when the government just randomly decided one day that smoking would be banned everywhere, effective immediately. You might think that's simpl…

This seems really out of context

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#106

Post by lokar »

afavour wrote: post #34
mytailorisrich wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is also part of a trend. More and more control over people's lives, more and more bans. Beyond whether something is "bad for you", the key aspect in a free society is whether the State should decide for you (we're entrusted with the right to vote, after all). Demolition Man has turned out to be the most accurate prediction of the future regarding those issues among all the 90s movies. Quite interesting.

I see smoking as a separate category owing to the existence of second hand smoke. Smoking in a room with other people adversely affects those people. I think government is the correct body to be intervening in that scenario.

I think health costs are the bigger issue

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#107

Post by lokar »

drcongo wrote: post #77
Ylpertnodi wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've probably never been out on a Friday night in the Uk.

This comment doesn't deserve the downvotes, it's a very valid point.

Is it really that bad? Is there something I can read to learn more?

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#108

Post by AlexandrB »

bill_joy_fanboy wrote: post #97
techteach00 wrote: post #92

Hopefully vaping will still be legal? They do distinguish the difference between inhaling burnt matter vs inhaling a heated aerosol, yes? Of course not. The only thing government and private enterprise seems good at these days is taking things away from people. Logic be damned.

UK has public/socialized healthcare. If you are a smoker, you are much more likely to be a burden on this system. Makes sense to ban these types of activities if the costs of them are socialized rather than individualized.

There are all kinds of activities/behaviors whose costs are socialized: obesity, driving, sitting around all day/not exercising, living in suburbs, gambling, engaging in sports (broken bones cost society!). That's kind of the point of a society though - to pay for socialized costs. If the goal is to make every individual pay for the consequences of their own decisions what's the point of public healthcare or insurance in general?

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#109

Post by lokar »

dnel wrote: post #91

I've been accosted outside enough shops to buy underage smokers a pack of cigs to know how well this will work.

This lack of social consensus is the problem here. A national referendum would be better, as it provides a way to force people to consider the changes and decide.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#110

Post by jstanley »

bill_joy_fanboy wrote: post #97
techteach00 wrote: post #92

Hopefully vaping will still be legal? They do distinguish the difference between inhaling burnt matter vs inhaling a heated aerosol, yes? Of course not. The only thing government and private enterprise seems good at these days is taking things away from people. Logic be damned.

UK has public/socialized healthcare. If you are a smoker, you are much more likely to be a burden on this system. Makes sense to ban these types of activities if the costs of them are socialized rather than individualized.

If the cost of having socialised healthcare is so severe maybe we should stop socialising healthcare before we start banning risky activities.
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