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Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

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Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#101

Post by bjackman »

_doctor_love wrote: post #20

Other countries have compulsory military service, for example Finland. Generally speaking I am a fan of the idea that everyone should be required to do some kind of community service for 2 years once they turn 18. Military service would just be one option, could be other kinds of civic engagement. This can really help people feel connected to their society and understand that there is something to show up for. BUT -…

> And to agree with others on this thread, the folks who push for war should 100% be required to participate in them and lead from the front

I agree but I don't think it goes far enough. Leading from the front of the best equipped military in the world doesn't balance your incentives against the misery you are inflicting on the innocent denizens of the poor country you're pointlessly destroying.

There's also the economic destruction back home to balance against. So, those who call for war should be forbidden to privately fund their healthcare and children's education.

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#102

Post by sleepybrett »

criddell wrote: post #11

Wars used to be paid for by raising taxes. Now we have no idea how much they cost. How many years in a row has the Pentagon failed it's audit? How many years (decades?) was the Iraq war funded through annual (unbudgeted) emergency measures? How many trillions in promised healthcare does America owe its veterans? If the President had to make the case that taking on Iran would cost each American around $1000 on top of…

> How many years in a row has the Pentagon failed it's audit?

The pentagon has NEVER been successfully audited.

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#103

Post by _doctor_love »

bjackman wrote: post #101
_doctor_love wrote: post #20

Other countries have compulsory military service, for example Finland. Generally speaking I am a fan of the idea that everyone should be required to do some kind of community service for 2 years once they turn 18. Military service would just be one option, could be other kinds of civic engagement. This can really help people feel connected to their society and understand that there is something to show up for. BUT -…

> And to agree with others on this thread, the folks who push for war should 100% be required to participate in them and lead from the front I agree but I don't think it goes far enough. Leading from the front of the best equipped military in the world doesn't balance your incentives against the misery you are inflicting on the innocent denizens of the poor country you're pointlessly destroying. There's also the econ…

Agree. I believe during WW2 the government put rules in place to prevent companies from making too much profit from the war. From what I recall in history class taxes were raised significantly as well.

War is a mighty economic engine, this cannot be denied. But if we take an entire country to war, then it stands to reason that the entire country should benefit from the spoils (to the extent that there are any).

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#104

Post by duped »

dylan604 wrote: post #5

Opening graph: "We should, as a society, seriously consider moving away from an all-volunteer force and only fight the next war if everyone shares in the risk and the cost," says military contractor and all-around surveillance-enabler Palantir. If that's the case, then every war to be fought needs to have the say so of those that will be doing the fighting and not the solitary decision made by a delusional leader tha…

I was going to make a sarcastic comment about how everyone in Russia shared the risks and costs with Nicolas Romanov but then realized it was true. If politicians sending kids to kill and die shared the risk and cost of war then they wouldn't get to come home from Washington when the war is finished.

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#105

Post by unethical_ban »

chromacity wrote: post #63
_doctor_love wrote: post #20

Other countries have compulsory military service, for example Finland. Generally speaking I am a fan of the idea that everyone should be required to do some kind of community service for 2 years once they turn 18. Military service would just be one option, could be other kinds of civic engagement. This can really help people feel connected to their society and understand that there is something to show up for. BUT -…

> Generally speaking I am a fan of the idea that everyone should be required to do some kind of community service for 2 years once they turn 18. Why? I get the warm-and-fuzzy angle of "instilling civic responsibility", but you're effectively instilling that at gunpoint: the government forces you to do this, else you go to prison. Is that really such an enlightened thing to do? It takes away two years of your life, po…

Devil's advocate.

First, "national service" does not necessarily mean relocation like a military deployment does. Second, there is no requirement that national service be free.

This has me thinking about a way to encourage some level of public service in exchange for better access to government programs, like an extra 10% in retirement benefits or something.

Reminds me of Starship Troopers: "Service Guarantees Citizenship!" Yes, I know it's a play on fascism.

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#106

Post by JohnMakin »

russellbeattie wrote: post #47

To those HNers working at Palantir - and there's bound to be a few - what's your deal? You do realize what sort of company you work for, right? Is it cognitive dissonance or are you really a paranoid right winger that's fully on board with Palantir's efforts to enable authoritarian governments akin to 1984's Big Brother? I'm curious. Please feel free to explain how you go to work every day and do what you do. Fair wa…

Money can paper over a lot of moral dilemmas - everyone has a price, whether or not we're necessarily aware of it. I refuse to interview with any company in the "defense," space, but I'm sure if someone threw enough money at me I might entertain it.

For true believers though, which I'm sure exist there, I do wonder much the same things.

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#107

Post by steve1977 »

_doctor_love wrote: post #20

Other countries have compulsory military service, for example Finland. Generally speaking I am a fan of the idea that everyone should be required to do some kind of community service for 2 years once they turn 18. Military service would just be one option, could be other kinds of civic engagement. This can really help people feel connected to their society and understand that there is something to show up for. BUT -…

> These days, what are American soldiers dying for?

Why, they're dying for people like Alex Karp and Peter Thiel of course.

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#108

Post by MengerSponge »

Drupon wrote: post #80
causal wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the idea of civic engagement / service in theory too, but I feel like the Vietnam war was a demonstration of possible failure modes when draft is in place: a lot of poor kids died, some rich kids allegedly used parental influence to dodge the draft. No incentive for leaders to avoid war while loop holes remain for their own interests.

People greatly overestimate the number of Vietnam vets who were drafted.

For others' sake, I double-checked: 2.59 million served, of which 648,500 were draftees. Right at 25%

Is there a study of soldiers who enlisted but only because their draft number was low? There were substantial benefits to enlisting, because you could choose your branch of service.

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#109

Post by nothinkjustai »

_doctor_love wrote: post #20

Other countries have compulsory military service, for example Finland. Generally speaking I am a fan of the idea that everyone should be required to do some kind of community service for 2 years once they turn 18. Military service would just be one option, could be other kinds of civic engagement. This can really help people feel connected to their society and understand that there is something to show up for. BUT -…

Why not make the people so proud and happy to live in the country that they choose to serve without you having to force them to do it with the barrel of a gun?

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#110

Post by _doctor_love »

nothinkjustai wrote: post #109
_doctor_love wrote: post #20

Other countries have compulsory military service, for example Finland. Generally speaking I am a fan of the idea that everyone should be required to do some kind of community service for 2 years once they turn 18. Military service would just be one option, could be other kinds of civic engagement. This can really help people feel connected to their society and understand that there is something to show up for. BUT -…

Why not make the people so proud and happy to live in the country that they choose to serve without you having to force them to do it with the barrel of a gun?

I think that's a lovely idea.
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