The secrets of the Shinkansen • Hacker News Board

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#101

Post by fooqux » Tue, Apr 14, 2026, 12:14 PM UTC

timr wrote: post #29

wahern wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the country is long and narrow The northeast and west coast metropolitan corridors are similar, and combined have comparable populations, densities, and distances as Japan. Yet we can't even build a single high-speed line. And for all the excuses about the difficulty of building rail through developed regions, the existing rights of ways and infrastructure in both the NE and California are comparable to what everyb…

> The density of the NE is nothing like what you see elsewhere in the world, especially Asia, and Japan and China specifically. Yeah, I defy anyone who claims the US can't build trains "because of density" to fly to Tokyo, and actually take the Seibu Shinjuku line west from Shinjuku station. Look at those buildings built right next to the tracks , for many, many kilometers. People live in those -- if the windows open…

It can be a factor of many things, can it not? Seriously, if Japan was a map option in Transport Tycoon, it would be labeled "easy".

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#102

Post by JKCalhoun » Tue, Apr 14, 2026, 12:24 PM UTC

throw0101d wrote: post #100

Tor3 wrote: post #70

"The Japanese love cars, but they take trains because they have the best railway system in the world" That's exactly it. It's not because of some cultural bias or whatever. I'm in Japan. I use trains because it's so very easy and it's so very reliable. It's simply the best option for travelling. If I wish to go to Tokyo? I check a website quickly, I look up the best connection for my schedule (easy to find), I may pa…

>> "The Japanese love cars, but they take trains because they have the best railway system in the world" > That's exactly it. It's not because of some cultural bias or whatever. Are there not a lot of toll roads in Japan as well? * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expressways_of_Japan#Tolls Also, is not the population density fairly high? There's not as much land to spread in low-density car centric suburbs like there i…

I have read you also need to prove you have a place to park a car in order to own one. (And as you point out, space is limited.)

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#103

Post by JKCalhoun » Tue, Apr 14, 2026, 12:27 PM UTC

phrotoma wrote: post #81

Tor3 wrote: post #70

"The Japanese love cars, but they take trains because they have the best railway system in the world" That's exactly it. It's not because of some cultural bias or whatever. I'm in Japan. I use trains because it's so very easy and it's so very reliable. It's simply the best option for travelling. If I wish to go to Tokyo? I check a website quickly, I look up the best connection for my schedule (easy to find), I may pa…

> “An advanced city is not one where even the poor use cars, but rather one where even the rich use public transport.”

On the JR line in Tokyo, standing with a friend who motions to me with his glance to a salaryman standing next to us. "Hand-stitched suit", my friend whispers. Which is when I notices this guy's "threads" (literally).

Perhaps not Warren Buffett, but no doubt an executive of some stature riding with the rest of us plebes.

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#104

Post by kgwgk » Tue, Apr 14, 2026, 12:44 PM UTC

socalgal2 wrote: post #24

Animats wrote: post #13

Japan's railroad system has a big geographic advantage - the country is long and narrow. The railroad system is primarily a long end to end line with short crosswise branches.[1] That's an efficient structure. The branch lines don't have to be fast. Many are still narrow gauge, at 3 ft 6 in. The US had to fill a huge area in the railroad era. That left a lot of underutilized track once the road network got good. [1]…

That's got zero to do with anything. you do not need to add rail to the whole country. As an example SF Bay Area and Switzerland are about the same size, SF has double the population density. It has a Bay, Switzerland has mountains. Switzerland has like 10x the trains. There's no reason SF Bay couldn't too. It's similar for most metro areas. LA used to have a huge train system. Bad insentives and government policies…

> As an example SF Bay Area and Switzerland are about the same size,

> SF has double the population density.

These two statements seem hard to reconcile considering that Switzerland’s population is higher.

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#105

Post by mitthrowaway2 » Tue, Apr 14, 2026, 12:46 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #13

Japan's railroad system has a big geographic advantage - the country is long and narrow. The railroad system is primarily a long end to end line with short crosswise branches.[1] That's an efficient structure. The branch lines don't have to be fast. Many are still narrow gauge, at 3 ft 6 in. The US had to fill a huge area in the railroad era. That left a lot of underutilized track once the road network got good. [1]…

It has a big geographic disadvantage too: the entire country is a mountain range. Japan's railway network relies on countless tunnels and viaducts, adding greatly to the cost, especially for high speed lines which require larger clearance and therefore larger tunnel diameters, and larger turning radii.

Geography is no excuse for the US not having better passenger rail service, especially when geography was no obstacle to the US having fantastic rail service in the 1920s.

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#106

Post by decimalenough » Tue, Apr 14, 2026, 12:53 PM UTC

There's a bunch of claims in the article that are misleading or just wrong.

> Core rail operations are profitable for every Japanese private railway company

Only the urban, legacy private railways that benefited from the "build a suburb and trains to it" system. Rural lines, private or not, all hemorrhage money, as do many of the newer private lines (often built by government and private only in name).

> Japanese cities have the lowest residential density in Asia

This is because Japanese "cities" (市) are administrative units, not actual cities. Particularly in the rapidly depopulating countryside, it's common for a bunch of dying villages that can't afford to duplicate their services anymore to get more or less forcibly merged into a "city" like Miyoshi in Shikoku that, in satellite view, looks like untouched forest:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/tRtdQisJCUMsqivv7

> The urban area of Tokyo, the densest Japanese city, has a weighted population density less than that of many European cities,

This is only true for Tokyo Prefecture, which encompasses a vast slab of mountains. Actual Tokyo (23-ku) packs in over 15k people/km2, 50% more than inner London (10k) and nearly 2.5x Greater London (6k).

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#107

Post by mitthrowaway2 » Tue, Apr 14, 2026, 12:53 PM UTC

Conan_Kudo wrote: post #28

radicalbyte wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Netherlands is a similar shape to the continental contiguous United States yet we have an excellent public transport system. Very good trains and every population has awesome cycling infrastructure. The US could have all of this and more in their populated areas. They're the richest country in the world. Why is the infrastructure so neglected? It's clearly a choice.

The question to ask is "who owns the rail lines?". That matters for having a good rail system. It's basically the same problem for why the US doesn't have fiber internet available everywhere, too.

For new rail at least, whoever wants to build them gets to own them, right?

I think what it comes down to is that if automobile companies had to build and maintain the roads, we certainly wouldn't have so many cars. But railway companies need to build the train lines, while competing with taxpayer funded automobile infrastructure. It's not impossible (see Japan) but also not easy.

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#108

Post by archi42 » Tue, Apr 14, 2026, 12:55 PM UTC

vidarh wrote: post #40

razorbeamz wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tourists are often buying paper tickets. There's no way for a foreign Android phone to use a digital Suica, so people with Android are stuck with a physical card or paper tickets, and there's a lot of outdated information online that the physical cards are in low supply (They were last year but this year they're not).

When we visited Tokyo last year, what stopped us from even trying was the online information we came across was unclear and suggested we could only get the physical cards at the airport and at some tourist office, and we forgot to look for it at the airport... I don't know if that is correct or not, but compare Oyster in London which is advertised at practically every corner store, so even if you get into town not kn…

We got IC cards (ICOCA) in Osaka for 500 Yen each, and used them for 2 weeks travelling across Japan this March. Worked like a charm, only thing that's annoying for us tourists is how it is a stored value card and needs to be topped up. I think we still had like 500 Yen on our cards when we departed, even though we bought a lot of stuff with it on the last few days.

While we got ours at the Osaka airport (KIX), I am sure I saw the "purchase a new SUICA/ICOCA" options at a few terminals while topping up. I suppose you mixed up the "Welcome to SUICA" tourist card (available at fewer locations) with the normal one? I was under the impression there was a lot of confusing information floating around online.

But I agree, public transport in London is - as a tourist - more straight forward. Just a matter of spotting the terminals at some stations IIRC. OTOH in Japan we found no station with an elevator smelling like someone used a hippie bus as an emergency toilet ;-)

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#109

Post by pezezin » Tue, Apr 14, 2026, 12:56 PM UTC

throw0101d wrote: post #100

Tor3 wrote: post #70

"The Japanese love cars, but they take trains because they have the best railway system in the world" That's exactly it. It's not because of some cultural bias or whatever. I'm in Japan. I use trains because it's so very easy and it's so very reliable. It's simply the best option for travelling. If I wish to go to Tokyo? I check a website quickly, I look up the best connection for my schedule (easy to find), I may pa…

>> "The Japanese love cars, but they take trains because they have the best railway system in the world" > That's exactly it. It's not because of some cultural bias or whatever. Are there not a lot of toll roads in Japan as well? * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expressways_of_Japan#Tolls Also, is not the population density fairly high? There's not as much land to spread in low-density car centric suburbs like there i…

> Also, is not the population density fairly high? There's not as much land to spread in low-density car centric suburbs like there is in (say) the US.

LOL no. Outside of the big neighborhoods of the big cities, Japan is endless urban sprawl. I know because I live in a small Japanese city of 40k people and it's just detached houses, small 2-story apartment buildings, a big box stores. Public transportation is almost non-existant and I need to drive my car everyday for everything.

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#110

Post by FuriouslyAdrift » Tue, Apr 14, 2026, 12:58 PM UTC

servo_sausage wrote: post #91

Gravityloss wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe some trains could be more redneck coded somehow? Steam trains with sweaty stokers and buffalo shooting from the windows of course had plenty of that, but how to bring something from that aesthetic to the present? Bar carriage with sports screens still sounds still a bit passive and cliche. Maybe a gym car? There are already kid and pet cars after all at least here. In German trains you get a real glass pint for…

I suspect that culturally for Americans to embrace trains, you probably need segregation; a free class and a ticketed class with a bouncer.

Riding the the train daily is the norm in the eastern United States. The urban density and shorter distances between metros allows it to be affordable.

The US is massive... riding the train between most cities is dramatically more expensive than flying and takes most of a day if not multiple days between cities.

I used to commute weekly between two cities in Texas and it was a 2 hour flight. (Houston - Lubbock)