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Subscription bombing and how to mitigate it

bytemash.net

101–110 of 199 posts

Re: Subscription bombing and how to mitigate it

#101
post #27

Recently we suffered a different kind of subscription bombing: a hacker using our 'change credit card' form to 'clean' a list of thousands credit cards to see which ones would go through and approve transactions. He ran the attack from midnight to 7AM, so there were no humans watching. IPs were rotated on every single request, so no rate limiter caught it. We had Cloudflare Turnstile installed in both the sign up for…

[flagged]

Re: Subscription bombing and how to mitigate it

#102
post #35
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree the topic and most of the content is legit! Which makes is even more annoying. Because you don't know which are the good bits where somebody is sharing his unique insight, and which is just taken from the LLMs world knowledge.

so you are merely just prejudiced against LLM generated content, even if it was good? Why not accept that it is good, and forget about it being LLM?

Because sounding skeptical and "clever" is more important to some people than providing meaningful and relevant insight into the topic at hand.

Re: Subscription bombing and how to mitigate it

#103
post #27

Recently we suffered a different kind of subscription bombing: a hacker using our 'change credit card' form to 'clean' a list of thousands credit cards to see which ones would go through and approve transactions. He ran the attack from midnight to 7AM, so there were no humans watching. IPs were rotated on every single request, so no rate limiter caught it. We had Cloudflare Turnstile installed in both the sign up for…

We solved this by introducing a silent block. If the system notices unusual behavior (too many payment attempts per user, for example), it no longer sends the payment attempt to the provider. Instead, it idles for a second or two and then just fails with a generic “payment declined.” Most attackers don’t notice they’re being blocked and just assume all credit cards are bad.

[deleted]

Re: Subscription bombing and how to mitigate it

#104
post #27

Recently we suffered a different kind of subscription bombing: a hacker using our 'change credit card' form to 'clean' a list of thousands credit cards to see which ones would go through and approve transactions. He ran the attack from midnight to 7AM, so there were no humans watching. IPs were rotated on every single request, so no rate limiter caught it. We had Cloudflare Turnstile installed in both the sign up for…

Did they use the same username/login every time?

Re: Subscription bombing and how to mitigate it

#106
post #5

It's a problem, but I really dislike the solution. Putting a website with known security issues behind Cloudflare's Turnstile is comparable to enforcing code signing—works until it doesn't, and in the meantime, helps centralize power around a single legal entitiy while pissing legitimate users off. The Internet was carefully designed to withstand a nuclear war and this approach, being adopted en masse, is slowly turn…

I fully agree with your comment. Wouldn't it be possible to just put off sending welcome emails until the user actually engaged with the product in some way? And if an account wigh no engagement persists for more than say three months just delete the account again under the premise of 'eroneousely created'?

Re: Subscription bombing and how to mitigate it

#107
post #35
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree the topic and most of the content is legit! Which makes is even more annoying. Because you don't know which are the good bits where somebody is sharing his unique insight, and which is just taken from the LLMs world knowledge.

so you are merely just prejudiced against LLM generated content, even if it was good? Why not accept that it is good, and forget about it being LLM?

?? I literally just wrote my main complaint:

> Because you don't know which are the good bits where somebody is sharing his unique insight, and which is just taken from the LLMs world knowledge.

Re: Subscription bombing and how to mitigate it

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I really like CloudFlare as a business. There's no vendor lock-in, just a genuine good product. If they turn around later and do something evil, literally all I need to do is change the nameserver to a competitor and the users of my website won't even notice.

Then you're not using any of their services besides DNS, at which point you don't need to use Cloudflare at all. As soon as you turn on any other service they offer, you need to actively migrate away. It's an inherent issue of services that actually provide a benefit. If you're saying "I can just migrate to any other nameserver" then you're telling me you have no use for Cloudflare in the first place. Because if you…

I think they also lock you into their DNS when you buy a domain from them, unlike other registrars who allow to change your NS freely. Sure, you can just transfer the domain elsewhere for a small price, but the point is they go the extra mile to force their NS, which I havent seen with other registrars.

Re: Subscription bombing and how to mitigate it

#110
post #27

Recently we suffered a different kind of subscription bombing: a hacker using our 'change credit card' form to 'clean' a list of thousands credit cards to see which ones would go through and approve transactions. He ran the attack from midnight to 7AM, so there were no humans watching. IPs were rotated on every single request, so no rate limiter caught it. We had Cloudflare Turnstile installed in both the sign up for…

We solved this by introducing a silent block. If the system notices unusual behavior (too many payment attempts per user, for example), it no longer sends the payment attempt to the provider. Instead, it idles for a second or two and then just fails with a generic “payment declined.” Most attackers don’t notice they’re being blocked and just assume all credit cards are bad.

Sounds like any per-user detection wouldn't have worked in this case.
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