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Ukrainian drone holds position for 6 weeks

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Re: Ukrainian drone holds position for 6 weeks

#101

Post by aogaili »

iamnothere wrote: post #94
aogaili wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I think people are downvoting you because your post displays extreme disconnection from reality. I will believe that it is possible to “fix” war immediately after we “fix” poverty, extreme inequality, hunger, deaths of despair, and crime, any of which should be immensely easier to solve than war. There are multiple genocides happening today .

This speculation in the future if this technology keeps being adopted and the world would have multiple strong players.

Would you rather keep the current system? how do you really think the war in Iran or Ukraine would end? It won't end until one side is completely destroyed, that is why it is called wars of attrition. But war of attrition means what when each side is using commercialized cheaply produced intelligent drones?

Re: Ukrainian drone holds position for 6 weeks

#102

Post by aogaili »

Blackthorn wrote: post #97
aogaili wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but it not like before. We (as humans) are getting more strict about losing people's life. We don't allow genocide, we don't allow colonization and enslavement, at least the majority of nations agree that this is not acceptable. So it is NOT like before. And the logical conclusion, as those drones get better and more widely adopted, is that war will be nothing more a video game with real economics and supply cha…

> We don't allow genocide, we don't allow colonization and enslavement, at least the majority of nations agree that this is not acceptable Literally all of these things are happening as we type this. What the majority of nations do or do not want is irrelevant.

Think in the future, I speak about a future, and you repeat it is happening, yes of course it is happening today, this tech is just being adopted.

Re: Ukrainian drone holds position for 6 weeks

#103

Post by aogaili »

Blackthorn wrote: post #97
aogaili wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but it not like before. We (as humans) are getting more strict about losing people's life. We don't allow genocide, we don't allow colonization and enslavement, at least the majority of nations agree that this is not acceptable. So it is NOT like before. And the logical conclusion, as those drones get better and more widely adopted, is that war will be nothing more a video game with real economics and supply cha…

> We don't allow genocide, we don't allow colonization and enslavement, at least the majority of nations agree that this is not acceptable Literally all of these things are happening as we type this. What the majority of nations do or do not want is irrelevant.

So you want this system to stay? You are advocating for loss of life?

Re: Ukrainian drone holds position for 6 weeks

#104

Post by gambiting »

aogaili wrote: post #99
gambiting wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>So do you think genocide is acceptable in war or not? Why would downvoting your comment signify supporting genocide though?

Well, because they reject the idea of making a war a physical video games of drones, therefore, they would be advocating keeping the current system? My point was that we are better off with abstracting away the war, so if you downvote that idea, then you want to keep the current system, and to win a war in the current system you need total surrender, which comes at a huge cost of life. You got it?

No, I downvoted your idea that somehow we "don't allow" genocide and yet Israel killed over 20k children in Gaza and literally nothing happened to anyone as a result - the downvote is on the blatantly untrue assumption that doesn't seem to relate to the real world at all.

I still don't understand why you think this implies that I support genocide, when the exact opposite is true?

Re: Ukrainian drone holds position for 6 weeks

#105

Post by alephnerd »

aogaili wrote: post #91
alephnerd wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are left with the only option of nulling the other's economy down How do you (detest this phrasing, it very glib) null the other side? Most weapon systems aren't developed in entirely separate supply chains - they use off-the-shelf components that are available for commercial usecases as well. To successfully take out an opponents operational capacity when they are using dual use technology means the barrier be…

And what is your point? you just re-enforced my main assertion?

My point is that this assertion is wrong - "they could easily kill the people, but other nations won't allow it, so it will stop at economical defeat".

It is predicated on the assumption that the new (but in reality old) iteration of war would lead to less civilian casualties.

Re: Ukrainian drone holds position for 6 weeks

#106

Post by dmos62 »

iammjm wrote: post #84
dmos62 wrote: post #25

Someone here said "[Russian] tactical units", "smoke grenades". They must be joking. A drone like this is defending against 2-3 50-year-olds without military experience wading through a bombed out tree-line into almost certain death, because there are literal firing squads waiting if they don't. With a huge round like 12.7, all you have to do is fire pot shots in the general vicinity while drone pilots do the rest. A…

You are being dishonest. Those squads usually have SOME degree of drone, artillery and aviation support behind them. They are basically there to find out where the defenders are. Sure they are expendable, but they are just a part of the attack. I bet 24 hours sitting in a trench with FPVs, 152mms, and FABs exploding all over your position would change your mind as to the danger posed by those attacks you make fun of.…

I am not making fun. If it seems that way, I misspoke. I think that any war is terrifying and this one more than any other I know of.

The way I imagine the attacks this UGV defended against is small groups of men deemed expendable knowingly going to their very likely deaths. Yes, this is part of a bigger Russian strategy which is very dangerous and unfortunately, so far, too effective.

Re: Ukrainian drone holds position for 6 weeks

#107

Post by nemomarx »

aogaili wrote: post #88
nemomarx wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

who doesn't allow genocide nowadays, exactly? or rather who intervenes to stop it? they don't seem to be very quick.

A disrupted global consensus-based algorithm.

Do you have a good suggestion for how to get the next superpower to agree to that kind of thing? I think the most likely outcome is that their allies will be allowed to do genocides where they want, and boycotts and blockades will only work on their enemies, probably.

Re: Ukrainian drone holds position for 6 weeks

#108

Post by dmos62 »

aprentic wrote: post #34

Reading between the lines of the article it seems advanced but not too surprising. I assume that at night when it "withdrew to a covered location" there was opportunity for maintenance, battery swaps, etc. The article says that it successfully carried out "multiple calls for fire." That sounds like over those 45 days there were multiple missions to provide suppressive fire. They're not explicit about what that means…

The UGVs are manually controlled. If you follow the source link there are some shots of xbox-like controllers.

Re: Ukrainian drone holds position for 6 weeks

#109

Post by ncruces »

aogaili wrote: post #83
ncruces wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't allow? Who doesn't? And what are they going to do about it?

The majority of nations? majority of people on earth? We are going to a multilateral world and to win a war you need secure the appeal of majority. If the majority think your war is illegal they can cut you off from the world economy. It is a distributed consensus-based algorithm, and the young people who are writing those algorithms will shape the future of governance.

The majority of the world thinks the Russia-Ukraine war is illegal.

The majority of the world thinks the Israeli/US-Iran war is illegal.

Re: Ukrainian drone holds position for 6 weeks

#110

Post by aogaili »

alephnerd wrote: post #105
aogaili wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what is your point? you just re-enforced my main assertion?

My point is that this assertion is wrong - "they could easily kill the people, but other nations won't allow it, so it will stop at economical defeat". It is predicated on the assumption that the new (but in reality old) iteration of war would lead to less civilian casualties.

How is it really old when we have completely new AI/Robotics enabled warfare that would allow nations in the not distance future (not today) to engage in a war without human involvement? We never had anything like this before?

How would a war like this look like? what does winning really mean? and if your entire drone army depends on a global economy of suppliers, then you can easily cut off.

How is it that old? we never had wars like this..sorry, this is very stupid argument.

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