Live data from Hacker News

For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

arstechnica.com

101–110 of 124 posts

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was clearly a he-tortoise. After all, an author only introduces a female character for some special reason, right? This kind of thing certainly applies to me and music. For some reason, it's hardly noticed when a North American of Hungarian, Polish, or French descent decides to play Irish Traditional music, but someone with Hispanic, African, or Asian descent playing that kind of music is frequently asked questi…

I think the assumption is that white people are the default kind of Irish people. White people playing some manner of traditional African music get asked the same questions, and it's not because black people are the default, normal human beings.

White people playing some manner of traditional African music get asked the same questions

This can happen. It depends on the context. There are contexts where white people don't get asked these questions about African music. I'm not so sure there are contexts where I'm not asked those sorts of questions about Irish Trad, just times and places where people are more reticent about asking than others.

Also, there's an additional difference. There is some small fraction of people who seem to think that I'm somehow defective/slightly crazy/deserving of ridicule for being of Korean extraction and playing Irish Trad. It's rare, but there's even sometimes some sense of resentment. More pleasant, but just as telling, there's sometimes some additional delight or pride that I in particular would choose to play Irish Trad, where my race seems to play a part. I never see the above happen in North America with white people who aren't Irish. I've also seen the same sorts of things happen to African Americans.

The third thing is this: mainstream North Americans don't view African traditional or Irish Traditional music as the default, normal music. It's also something of a "special flavor" to them, even though it was just the default, normal music in a different culture. An Asian person playing western "classical" music sometimes results in the same kinds of questions as Irish Trad, but often it's not even questioned at all.

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#102
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea is that when kids are growing up, they make subconscious connections and observations about the world around them. If a young child plays video games and consistently sees that boys are always the hero, they might extrapolate that to simply: "Boys and always the hero". I don't have a strong opinion on the subject, I just thought I'd try and explain the position as I understand it.

> I think the idea is that when kids are growing up, they make subconscious connections and observations about the world around them. Let me say that, in my experience, this is absolutely true . I grew up in Western PA, in a place where we had to drive 50 miles to visit other asians, who weren't even also Korean. I certainly made subconscious connections and observations about the world, many of which were hugely ske…

In my case I assumed until I started primary school that all boys had blue eyes and all girls had brown eyes, because this observation just happened to hold for everyone in my immediate family as well as all of the neighbours' children that I played with.

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#103
post #86

Great idea and cool hack. I'm about to be the father of a baby girl soon myself and there is no end to the anxiety I hold for the struggles she's going to face simply because she's a girl. Although if she ever wants to know programming, maths, and how to solder a PCB I intend to be there for her... and perhaps editing hex dumps of games as well. Thanks for the tip!

As someone who is myself about to be the father of a baby girl any day now, congratulations! I have to admit, it is pretty shocking to realize for myself how gender-normative I am already being. Her room is Tiffany Blue and all her clothes are already pink. I hope I keep it to these superficial things...

It's very easy to encourage and support an outlook where the default gender is female, where heroes are female (even if they are princesses who favour pink). For us, all that was easy and natural. I'm now flummoxed by "Math is hard." And speaking of over-sexualized toys, that cultural norm is also easy to avoid.

It might be that part of our family culture includes a sense of cliquishness, so this all may circle back for ass-chewing later on; but for now it's good.

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but I'm firm to believe that the problem lies to the mind that makes the distinction first. If someone sees Link and the first thing that pops in his head is "what a shame he's not a girl" and retcon the intended storytelling to keep the content on par with their expectations then I certainly can't blame the game's creator. Not to mention that the boy isn't always the hero. I'll just bring another Nintendo…

> What is he planning to do? "Patch" every possible subconscious connections that his daughter might make for the next 5-10 years? Maybe the plan is to make a bunch of noise about it so eventually game creators get used to the idea of catering to both halves of their audience. I hope it works.

But by no means is it "both halves." Game players are overwhelmingly male. And this has nothing to do with exposure or expectations, it's entirely possible that the female brain just isn't as interested in video games.

My fiancée enjoys Mario on occasion (and does complain that the princess always needs rescuing), but she flat out does not get into games nearly as much as I do. She could if she wanted to, absolutely nothing holds her back. She is also not unusual in this regard, women as a whole are less interested in video games.

So I disagree that game developers should feel obligated to cater to both sexes. Indeed, game developers should simply be allowed to make whatever games they please.

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#106
post #69

My young son loves Studio Ghibli films. Nearly all the main characters Kiki, Chihiro, Ponyo, Arrietty, Satsuke and Mei etc are girls. He is a bit young for Mononoke and hasn't seen Nausicaä. About the only one he doesn't like is Porco Rosso. Role models are important but I don't know that all our kids heroes and game characters have to be same sex.

I thought Porco Rosso was sad compared to Totoro or Mononoke. My friends who liked other Miyazaki movies didn't like Porco Rosso.

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#108
post #53
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In GEB, the protagonists are the Tortoise and Achilles. I think this particular passage is about the french translation that Hoefstader proof-read (as he's fluent in French); the French translator called the Tortoise "she", because "tortue" is of feminine gender so most "tortues" characters are naturally female in French.

This I wonder about: do feminine and masculine (and nueter) pronouns indicate gender when used for non-people beings, or must they match the word of those things? Ich hab' eine Hase, die wir Hans nennen. The pronoun is feminine to match the word Hase, even though the hare is male as indicated by his name. Oder würde man "Der [die Hase] heißt Hans" sagen?

Hase, being masculine, is a bad example here.

But cat, Katze (feminine), and dog, Hund (masculine), work. There are versions of these words for the opposite sex, Kater and Hündin, but there are used rarely. So 'Ich habe eine Katze, Felix' and 'Ich habe einen Hund, Bella' would be perfectly acceptable even though the gender of the noun doesn't match the sex of the animal.

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#109
post #94
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the one game where they tried to actually make a character of her, Other M , portrayed her as embarrassingly weak-willed (making sure to make it about her gender as obviously as they could, no less) and verging on obsessive toward her (male) superior officer. Metroid is a great series, but they do not win points for this.

To be fair, Other M was developed by a different studio. To keep my sanity, I regard it as non-canonical.

The saddest part of Other M might be that its development was lead by the surviving co-creator of the original Metroid games, who does not appear to understand why people liked Metroid in the first place.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshio_Sakamoto

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#110
post #43

Hayao Miyazaki uses female protagonist not because it is more "PC" but for the advancement of the story. 'Miyazaki: I don't logically plan it that way. When we compare a man in action and a girl in action, I feel girls are more gallant. If a boy is walking with a long stride, I don't think anything particular, but if a girl is walking gallantly, I feel "that's cool." '

I accept it's not specifically because it's PC, but that's not advancement of the story, that's just him applying his own perceptions and prejudices.

A girl walking a particular way isn't more significant than a boy walking in a particular way, he just sees it as such.

Generally in these situations it's best not to worry too much about the intentions the person had and just look at the end result. After all, intentions will often be unclear, lied about, recollection of why something was may change over time and so on.

It's interesting to hear what someone says, but what they actually produce is more important.

Post reply on HN