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Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

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Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#101

Post by watwut »

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #82
quentindanjou wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of all the issues with the US justice system, being compelled to disclose passwords isn't one of them. This is not totally true. It is also a US issue: CBP has been asking for passwords (or to unlock the device) for phones and computers for more than a year now. Last year, multiple people got turned around because they disagreed with US policies and political views that differ from those of the US's current preside…

You don't have the protections of U.S. law at the border. CBP is also asking , not compelling. You don't have to give them your password. If you don't, and you're a foreigner, you may be turned away. If you're a citizen, and I remember correctly, they can seize your device for up to two days if they want. But they're not going to put you in prison for refusing like the U.K. and Hong Kong will.

You dont have protectiond of US law on the border, inside the border and barely if you are a citizen far away from border. Realistically.

And also actually per law. And yes, being forced to give out passwords and make profiles public as a rputine thing is much worst then being forced to give out password when there is actual warrant.

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#102

Post by dmitrygr »

kubb wrote: post #83
danlitt wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody claimed Europe was worse than China, only that if you wouldn't visit China for this reason then you shouldn't visit Europe (or the US) for the same reason. Speaking of being disingenuous, when you say "Police can search phones to counteract human traffickers", did you think critically about that at all before writing it? Given one of the stated justifications is "preventing terrorism", and the UK has been ille…

> Nobody claimed Europe was worse than China, only that if you wouldn't visit China for this reason then you shouldn't visit Europe (or the US) for the same reason. That would be nonsensical. If you have anti-Xi propaganda on your phone (which could be the reasons you mention), you have nothing to fear in Europe or in the US and a lot to fear in China. The US is actually worse than both China and Europe because it's…

Indeed anti-Xi posts are unsafe in China, and safe in UK. Equally, anti-UK posts are safe in China and not so in the UK... (eg https://www.congress.gov/119/meeting/house/118565/documents/...). The naïveté in the claim that these are significantly different reminded me of an old joke from the USSR:

American: In America, we have freedom of speech.

USSRian: What's that?

American: I can stand in front of the White House and yell "Reagan is a moron!" and nothing will happen to me.

USSRian: Well, we have that in USSR too.

American: Really?

USSRian: Yes, of course! I go stand in the center of the Red Square and yell "Reagan is a moron" and nothing will happen to me.

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#103

Post by Markoff »

kubb wrote: post #83
danlitt wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody claimed Europe was worse than China, only that if you wouldn't visit China for this reason then you shouldn't visit Europe (or the US) for the same reason. Speaking of being disingenuous, when you say "Police can search phones to counteract human traffickers", did you think critically about that at all before writing it? Given one of the stated justifications is "preventing terrorism", and the UK has been ille…

> Nobody claimed Europe was worse than China, only that if you wouldn't visit China for this reason then you shouldn't visit Europe (or the US) for the same reason. That would be nonsensical. If you have anti-Xi propaganda on your phone (which could be the reasons you mention), you have nothing to fear in Europe or in the US and a lot to fear in China. The US is actually worse than both China and Europe because it's…

Nobody cares about your phone in China, if you are tourist, you are less likely have your phone searched than when visiting US. Nobody is going to ask you for your social media profiles when visiting China, unlike when visiting US. So who is here the free country?

I've spent this summer 3 weeks in China, used 2 VPNs, both of them worked fine (1 cost less than dollar, the other 4-5 dollars), so did my wife, mother and her husband, guess how many times someone cared about checking our phone.

The biggest issue was when we travelled into Beijing province where there are mo strict border checks and police found out we didn't register our accommodation (at wife's family), the scary horrible policemen then locked us for weeks and deport us from country... No, seriously, that would more likely happen in US than in China, in China they just told us to register after the weekend at local police station and let us continue into province to check Great wall, policemen in police station could not care less and be more laid back about it.

Maybe visit some other countries to have actual experiences instead spreading everywhere your feelings about other countries based on some propaganda.

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#104

Post by fn-mote »

wat10000 wrote: post #89
quentindanjou wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of all the issues with the US justice system, being compelled to disclose passwords isn't one of them. This is not totally true. It is also a US issue: CBP has been asking for passwords (or to unlock the device) for phones and computers for more than a year now. Last year, multiple people got turned around because they disagreed with US policies and political views that differ from those of the US's current preside…

I don't approve of CBP's approach here, but being denied entry to the country isn't punishment, even if it might feel like it at the time. And that only applies to non-citizens, where entry is fairly reasonably at the government's discretion. Citizens must be admitted regardless. Rules at the border tend to be pretty restrictive almost everywhere. You can literally get in trouble for having a sandwich in your bag. I'…

Do you ever travel outside your own country? Do you think you should retain some basic privacy rights while you do that?

It’s not even good for business. Business laptops and phones have trade secrets to conduct regular company activities.

Normalizing the surveillance dystopia we live in ON HN is beyond my understanding.

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#105

Post by Scaled »

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #82
quentindanjou wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of all the issues with the US justice system, being compelled to disclose passwords isn't one of them. This is not totally true. It is also a US issue: CBP has been asking for passwords (or to unlock the device) for phones and computers for more than a year now. Last year, multiple people got turned around because they disagreed with US policies and political views that differ from those of the US's current preside…

You don't have the protections of U.S. law at the border. CBP is also asking , not compelling. You don't have to give them your password. If you don't, and you're a foreigner, you may be turned away. If you're a citizen, and I remember correctly, they can seize your device for up to two days if they want. But they're not going to put you in prison for refusing like the U.K. and Hong Kong will.

If you're a US citizen, I believe they can seize your device indefinitely, and detain you for up to two days. They are required to let you eventually back into the country though.

(If you're not a citizen, all bets are off)

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#106

Post by cortic »

andylynch wrote: post #8
tyho wrote: post #3

Wow, what a free society! In the UK if you refuse to unlock your device you can be imprisoned indefinitely! In HK it's just one year!

Why are you misrepresenting about UK law? Yes, it can be a criminal offence. But the maximum tariff for this under RIPA 2000 is five years. If it’s not about nation security or CSAM, it’s two. (Incidentally, the USA is a real outlier in this topic)

Its five years with no limitations, so when you are due to be released; Whats your password? Another five years... Its such a poorly worded law you could literally spend your life in prison for forgetting your password. And Its mostly used against peaceful protesters.

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#107

Post by kubb »

Markoff wrote: post #103
kubb wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody claimed Europe was worse than China, only that if you wouldn't visit China for this reason then you shouldn't visit Europe (or the US) for the same reason. That would be nonsensical. If you have anti-Xi propaganda on your phone (which could be the reasons you mention), you have nothing to fear in Europe or in the US and a lot to fear in China. The US is actually worse than both China and Europe because it's…

Nobody cares about your phone in China, if you are tourist, you are less likely have your phone searched than when visiting US. Nobody is going to ask you for your social media profiles when visiting China, unlike when visiting US. So who is here the free country? I've spent this summer 3 weeks in China, used 2 VPNs, both of them worked fine (1 cost less than dollar, the other 4-5 dollars), so did my wife, mother and…

> if you are tourist

It's not the tourists, it's the local dissidents that have something to fear. Or maybe try going there as a tourist, and putting up anti-party posters.

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#108

Post by anonymousiam »

I wonder what would happen if HK tried to force somebody to unlock their business phone. It's typically a violation of corporate policy to allow a third party to access the encrypted, confidential information on corporate mobile devices.

The poor device user would be faced with a choice of losing their job and being held criminally liable for breaching their company's systems, or going to jail in Hong Kong.

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#109

Post by [deleted] »

beambot wrote: post #50
pcdevils wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The police must obtain appropriate permission from a judge to obtain a s.49 RIPA notice. Before a judge grants the notice, they must be satisfied that: The key to the protected information is in the possession of the person given notice. Disclosure is necessary in the interest of national security, in preventing or detecting crime or in the interests of the economic wellbeing of the UK. Disclosure is proportionate. I…

So you're saying it's still at the discretion of a single magistrate? I'm sure China could find some judges to rule in the name of national security if it would give everyone warm fuzzies. Judicial checks and balances only function when they're independent of the executive and parliament

[deleted]

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#110

Post by xeromal »

kleiba wrote: post #23

It would be nice if phones had a feature where you can define more than one pin, but only one is for your actual phone contents - the other ones leave you to a completely harmless but otherwise indistinguishable looking smartphone interface that contains no or only completely bogus data.

Samsung has the secure folder which is similar. You lock aware the goods behind a second password and activating that secure folder can be slightly hidden.
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