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When do we become adults, really?

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Re: When do we become adults, really?

#101

Post by Ifkaluva »

cineticdaffodil wrote: post #99

A adult is a person poisoned by experience. The poison makes you capable to navigate the world easier, but the poison that is knowledge also inhibits and limits you. If you know more about the world or the future, you are less likely to have children. The more knowledge you have the more it limits your ability to move of the rails, do novel scientific discovery, etc. An adult is thus the most information poisoned per…

I would say that’s the teenage phase, infected by nihilism. The adult moves past that, finds that life is an acquired taste, and finds joy in the everyday.

Re: When do we become adults, really?

#102

Post by Barrin92 »

As the article hints at the idea of an "adult" is closely tied to the structured, 'on rails' lifestyle of the industrial age. In rich societies people live on a linear track: vocation/uni, job, marriage etc.

When I lived in China I met a (physically) older guy in his 60s at the time who had lived through the cultural revolution, spent 8 years on a farm, went back to school when the universities opened up, started a business, then lost the business after various reforms during the Deng era, and had started work as a programmer in his 50s. He always said "when you're younger than 60 you can just start over" when he heard young adults having existential panics.

The guy had restarted his life so often he genuinely seemed like a curious kid, and I think that has a lot to do with just how chaotic and cyclical everything was, he was just used to it. You reinvented yourself every 10-15 years because the world changed.

And I think that's an important lesson because the stable environment that convinced people they're finished adults by the time they're 25 is about to be over everywhere. The whole house, golden retriever, 9-5 Truman show thing isn't coming back and having a childish spirit might very well be a big advantage.

Re: When do we become adults, really?

#103

Post by blueflow »

tredre3 wrote: post #97
blueflow wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Child abuse might be a large driver behind dysfunctionality in adulthood, with disability or early retirement as a consequence. There were some big child neglect cases around the millennium, since them, the topic got more attention from researchers. It used to be that traumatised kids got slapped with a ADHD, autism and/or borderline diagnosis and it got called a day. These are "that's just how you are" style diagnos…

> The denial phase is over. We're in the over-correcting phase, where every person alive is an abuse survivor of varying seriousness. For what it's worth I'm not a cynical person against psychology, and I read both the DSM and the ICD front to back every time a revision comes out. But with every revision, especially for the DSM, I become more concerned that we're creeping towards the "everybody suffers from a multitu…

> where every person alive is an abuse survivor of varying seriousness

An odd way to frame it but probably true.

> which will bring us right back to ignoring people who need help

That does not follow - if the environmental sources are known, people (especially teachers and social workers) can look out for them and take measures to improve the outcome for the child. And this is what I'm seeing right now.

See it on a societal scale - for the same effort put into raising kids, you get more functional adults.

Re: When do we become adults, really?

#104

Post by marginalia_nu »

Barrin92 wrote: post #102

As the article hints at the idea of an "adult" is closely tied to the structured, 'on rails' lifestyle of the industrial age. In rich societies people live on a linear track: vocation/uni, job, marriage etc. When I lived in China I met a (physically) older guy in his 60s at the time who had lived through the cultural revolution, spent 8 years on a farm, went back to school when the universities opened up, started a b…

That stable environment was always more or less a myth.

Some people live the 'on rails' lifestyle, others never find the tracks, some get kicked off after a few years.

At its best it's a tool for helping make sense of life and society, but it can also be a destructive myth that leads to resentment and anger in those who end up somewhere else, like they're entitled to this outcome that just wasn't in their cards. Easy to get lost in that darkness and fail to actually make something of life.

Re: When do we become adults, really?

#106

Post by em-bee »

justonceokay wrote: post #85
Tade0 wrote: post #75

A friend of mine once said something that stuck with me: "There's a dearth of people who will do what's necessary without complaining." To me it's all about realising that there's work which needs to be done regularly, that no one else will do for you and also no one will thank you for doing. I've been happier since I realised this myself.

People learn this at different rates and for wildly different reasons. When I was out of college working at Amazon, I would be amazed that my colleagues seemed to lack skills like doing the laundry. But I got kicked out of my home at 18 and it was made abundantly clear from the age of 16 onward that this would be the case. Remaining a child is a luxury that I wish everyone can experience for as long as possible

we had to help with housework as soon as we were teens. laundry, shopping, cooking, dishes, cleaning the house. i didn't live alone until i was 27, but i had all the skills needed to take care of myself. staying at home was not laziness, but simply economical. i moved out when i got a job in a distant location.

Re: When do we become adults, really?

#107

Post by rexpop »

> Starting after age 20

Claiming that Talmudic adulthood begins simply "after age 20" completely misses the profound philosophical depth of the Jewish tradition!

Judaism is fundamentally, as Levinas puts it a "religion of adults". It has nothing to do with biological age, but is instead a state where one rejects the immature desire to endlessly test the waters, keep a safe distance, and leave your options open without ever making a definitive choice.

Adulthood, in the Jewish perspective (according to me ;)), is a commitment to receiving the Law directly as an ethical obligation to "the other" without fully understanding what that means. It's a commitment to becoming "hostage" to the other, taking on an infinite, non-negotiable burden to answer for circumstances and suffering you did not even cause.

In every generation, the mountain of desolation hangs over us like an asteroid, and in every generation we must make the adult effort to accept the Law and commit unconditionally to the Good.

Or something like that. At any rate, it's not simply "starting after age 20."

Re: When do we become adults, really?

#108

Post by em-bee »

sethammons wrote: post #51

I have been a parent since I was 15. Officially married and moved on our own at 19. Graduated from the university at 22. Struggled hard-core until about 30 when my career changed and finally kicked off. My wife became an at home mom for our now three kids. It was my 40s when I realized, "oh, others see me as the adult in the room." I joke and say, "i have always been in my 30s," but I do feel a change recently. Very…

may i ask which country/culture you are from?

how did you experience becoming a parent so early?

coming from europe i find that having kids so early is really looked down upon, but then i moved to china and found that people there get married much earlier than i am used to.

but chinese culture has a great support system. having children in your 20s means that grandparents are in their 40s and 50s, and they help you raise your children.

combined with my own experience of getting married only in my 30s i realized that the older people get, the less adaptable/flexible they become. they are set in their ways, and i concluded that the big benefit of getting married early is that you are more adaptable. you don't need to find a fully compatible partner as you are developing together with your partner. what you do need though, is support from your parents and from society.

i find this model so much better than the western one where you are left to your own devices once you leave the house, and where society doesn't at all support young parents. they are looked down upon as having messed up and not being ready.

Re: When do we become adults, really?

#109

Post by aaron695 »

cineticdaffodil wrote: post #99

A adult is a person poisoned by experience. The poison makes you capable to navigate the world easier, but the poison that is knowledge also inhibits and limits you. If you know more about the world or the future, you are less likely to have children. The more knowledge you have the more it limits your ability to move of the rails, do novel scientific discovery, etc. An adult is thus the most information poisoned per…

[dead]

Re: When do we become adults, really?

#110

Post by Tade0 »

justonceokay wrote: post #85
Tade0 wrote: post #75

A friend of mine once said something that stuck with me: "There's a dearth of people who will do what's necessary without complaining." To me it's all about realising that there's work which needs to be done regularly, that no one else will do for you and also no one will thank you for doing. I've been happier since I realised this myself.

People learn this at different rates and for wildly different reasons. When I was out of college working at Amazon, I would be amazed that my colleagues seemed to lack skills like doing the laundry. But I got kicked out of my home at 18 and it was made abundantly clear from the age of 16 onward that this would be the case. Remaining a child is a luxury that I wish everyone can experience for as long as possible

I draw the line at the point when someone has a stable job that allows them to pay rent. I've seen people who basically had "two youths" and they were generally unhappy.
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