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A data center opened next door. Then came the high-pitched whine

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Re: A data center opened next door. Then came the high-pitched whine

#101
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only "retroactively" changing "the rules" because "the rules" are an instance of regulatory capture limiting the policing of externalities to only ones that have been enumerated. Otherwise the general principle is that if you cause harm to other people, you are responsible for that harm. And industrial noise at all hours of the day is harm. You'll get zero argument from me about the need to build more power plan…

> You can also look at the onerousness of permitting processes (etc) as a result of a regime whereby once something is built, if it causes problems then nobody can do anything about it. This is an interesting point I have not considered as much as I should have. I think it's somewhat circular. As regulations become more and more restrictive on a "global" scale, "local" workarounds are going to become more common and…

But doesn't this trend directly tie back to the general point I'm making? Barring once-and-done things like illegal dumping of hazardous waste, "screwing the tiny minority" involves an ongoing process. It's only by the current legal conventions do we allow a one-time mistake in approval to keep on willfully causing harm indefinitely [0]. So when those 10 people inevitably complain in whatever higher jurisdiction might be able to do something about it, they're told too bad it's now a done deal.

Get rid of that regulatory subsidy in your example, and now working with 900 [1] property owners [2] for the predictable well-worn path becomes a more attractive alternative.

[0] Part of the problem is intrinsic to large sunk costs of capital investment, yes. But some is not - the data center still exists and can eventually be used for the purpose it was built for without the turbine generators, but the investors' desired schedule to full operation slips. I'd say this is effectively the same as any other project setback, and comes from something that was deliberately maintained as an unknown.

[1] was this number meant to capture only the people whose real estate is being bought for the right of way, or was it meant to include abutters as well?

[2] I'd say the main problems here stem from the high cost of real estate, especially developed real estate. Of course people get touchy when their single life-asset that they're scraping by to slowly own stands to be drastically devalued. And the higher cost pushes developers to try and avoid compensating everyone who is affected.

Re: A data center opened next door. Then came the high-pitched whine

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You had me in the first half, the last paragraph is going way too far.

If anything it's not going far enough. Corruption should be considered high treason and lead to public executions . As a common citizen, very few things in this world are more demoralizing than witnessing corrupt politicians get filthy rich while trading favors, embezzling money, creating loopholes for corporations to exploit while pretending to regulate them or whatever else it is that they do, there are so many sca…

Then blame shifts to the little guy being the scape goat. I mean it already happens in corrupt countries.

Re: A data center opened next door. Then came the high-pitched whine

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You had me in the first half, the last paragraph is going way too far.

If anything it's not going far enough. Corruption should be considered high treason and lead to public executions . As a common citizen, very few things in this world are more demoralizing than witnessing corrupt politicians get filthy rich while trading favors, embezzling money, creating loopholes for corporations to exploit while pretending to regulate them or whatever else it is that they do, there are so many sca…

this happens in some places

https://nordictimes.com/world/china-executes-senior-official...

but the US venerates $$$ more than anything

Re: A data center opened next door. Then came the high-pitched whine

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the ways corruption hides its intentions is lying to make it look like incompetence. It takes a very long time for the truth to come out and it rarely does but corruption depends on people buying the lies and assuming its just incompetence.

Incompetence should carry liability as well. If some politician signs his name to random documents without understanding what he's doing and causes harm to people, he should simply pay the price to make the other party whole, whatever damage was caused should be undone to the fullest possible extent and he should be removed from office for good measure because he's clearly too dumb to exercise it responsibly. That's…

> Incompetence should carry liability as well

I actually think there's something in there.

Re: A data center opened next door. Then came the high-pitched whine

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything it's not going far enough. Corruption should be considered high treason and lead to public executions . As a common citizen, very few things in this world are more demoralizing than witnessing corrupt politicians get filthy rich while trading favors, embezzling money, creating loopholes for corporations to exploit while pretending to regulate them or whatever else it is that they do, there are so many sca…

Then blame shifts to the little guy being the scape goat. I mean it already happens in corrupt countries.

Revoke their right to privacy. Normal citizens get to have privacy protections. Not them. They are in power to serve us. We should be entitled to know everything they are doing at all times. Let's see them try to scapegoat anyone then. If they don't like it just resign.

If a solution isn't working, it's probably because it's not extreme enough. Always go further. If they try to weasel out, preempt them. We aren't dealing with innocent lambs here. These are rich elites who graduated from top universities, high functioning sociopaths who absolutely have enough education and mental acuity to know right from wrong. They take an almost sadistic pleasure in not only subverting morality but in getting away with it. They don't just do things, they rub it in our faces that they did it and got away with it, and think us fools for not stopping them.

Corruption is power without responsibility. The more power you have, the more scrutiny you should be subjected to and the more consequences you should suffer.

Re: A data center opened next door. Then came the high-pitched whine

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything it's not going far enough. Corruption should be considered high treason and lead to public executions . As a common citizen, very few things in this world are more demoralizing than witnessing corrupt politicians get filthy rich while trading favors, embezzling money, creating loopholes for corporations to exploit while pretending to regulate them or whatever else it is that they do, there are so many sca…

this happens in some places https://nordictimes.com/world/china-executes-senior-official... but the US venerates $$$ more than anything

Awesome!

Re: A data center opened next door. Then came the high-pitched whine

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an assumption underlying what you said that datacenters are gonna get built one way or another. But these aren't sewage plants or power plants or desalination plants or whatever, they aren't particularly important for the quality of life of most people. We could just kinda... not build them? How about we don't let them get built most places so it becomes fairly expensive. Make it so expensive that only say 1/…

It's bad for my quality of life if some of the economic inputs to things I use (like "the internet", writ large) get made deliberately more expensive to build via regulatory fiat. Indeed, this is basically deliberate NIMBYism, and NIMBYism is why housing is scarce and expensive where I live. I don't want policymakers to be able to assert that the only possible use of a datacenter is something they find silly and then…

What portion of datacenters being built in the next five years go towards the existing Internet and why do we need more datacenters for the internet right now? I could point to a bunch of issues with the internet and more datacenters would fix none of them.

Re: A data center opened next door. Then came the high-pitched whine

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That’s a rare case where I support NIMBY. It's kind of darkly funny that NIMBY ever came to refer to housing in the first place. The term was originally meant to apply to stuff exactly like this -- i.e. genuinely noxious uses that most people nevertheless agree are necessary somewhere . Almost everybody is a NIMBY in this sense.

Incumbent homeowners (and sometimes renters in rent-control situations) voting for policies that prevent new housing from being built near them is a huge reason why housing costs so much where I live; and reducing local housing costs is probably the single biggest way that policy changes could directly improve my quality of life. Also, housing itself is often a genuinely noxious use of land for incumbent homeowners.…

This is a little oversimplistic.

Developers share an enormous role in this problem. They want to enshittify nice places to live with overdevelopment, because people with lower standards want to live there - which is perfectly fine. But they could happily live in residential zones built outward instead - however, that doesn't get the developers as much money, so they don't.

Re: A data center opened next door. Then came the high-pitched whine

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incumbent homeowners (and sometimes renters in rent-control situations) voting for policies that prevent new housing from being built near them is a huge reason why housing costs so much where I live; and reducing local housing costs is probably the single biggest way that policy changes could directly improve my quality of life. Also, housing itself is often a genuinely noxious use of land for incumbent homeowners.…

This is a little oversimplistic. Developers share an enormous role in this problem. They want to enshittify nice places to live with overdevelopment, because people with lower standards want to live there - which is perfectly fine. But they could happily live in residential zones built outward instead - however, that doesn't get the developers as much money, so they don't.

This is an explicitly anti-density, pro-suburban-sprawl housing policy proposal. This is basically the opposite of what transit-oriented urbanists would like to see.
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