101–110 of 352 posts
I haven't read a Java manual since the time of Java 8. Do you have any books or other resources you could recommend to catch up with all that has changed in these years?
https://www.marcobehler.com/guides/a-guide-to-java-versions-...
https://advancedweb.hu/a-categorized-list-of-all-java-and-jv...
And this more like a reference:
I have been using Java since version 1.4. Both the language and its ecosystem have come a long way since then. I endured the height of the EJB phase. I adopted Spring when version 1.2 was released. I spent hours fighting with IDEs to run OSGi bundles. I hated building UIs with Swing/AWT, many of which are still in use today and are gradually being replaced by lovely JavaFX. When I look at code I wrote around 12 years…
Dude JFX yielded what was called RIAs to JavaScript like almost 15 years ago. Of the three major GUI toolkits Swing, JavaFX, and SWT it was Swing that gained HighDPI support first (10 years ago), and continues to be the base for kick-as IntelliJ IDEA and other Jetbrains IDEs.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you mean by "better than Go for industry purposes"? I don't understand what "industry purposes" means and in what aspects Java is better than Go in your opinion (I can think of some myself, but I'm interested in your perspective).
Not the GP, but for really large code bases, Go is missing a few features that I've noticed: 1) No immutable types. My work team is a huge user of immutable data stuctures in Java to make sure data passed around to other teams isn't changed. Go doesn't really have a good way to do this. 2) Refactoring can be really annoying (or at least really noisy) because of public/private being defined by capitalization of method…
The typical answer is opaque types with only readonly methods exported. Not elegant, but it’s there. I guess it’s arguably not a “good way” to do it.
the people that work on Java & the JVM are very smart. it has become a best of breed language - hell its better than Go for industry purposes. the drawback with Java will always be the CULTURE - (maybe someone can insert a quote of how in physics progress is only made, when old physicist die - I don't wanna be morbid ) but with Java same that's when the culture will change. All those people using typescript (could be…
I didn't use Java since 7, but from people that do - nowadays you basically don't code Java, you code Spring Boot. And that has all the bad things you think when people say "Java". I don't know if it's true though.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Go has gc too and arguably worse one than Java
Yeah but I do like not having to give Go several flags to do something reasonable with its memory
the people that work on Java & the JVM are very smart. it has become a best of breed language - hell its better than Go for industry purposes. the drawback with Java will always be the CULTURE - (maybe someone can insert a quote of how in physics progress is only made, when old physicist die - I don't wanna be morbid ) but with Java same that's when the culture will change. All those people using typescript (could be…
I didn't use Java since 7, but from people that do - nowadays you basically don't code Java, you code Spring Boot. And that has all the bad things you think when people say "Java". I don't know if it's true though.
Subjective experience, but largely agreed.
Vague rant that summarizes my own experience: major version updates kind of suck, even if Spring Boot is still better than regular Spring (I've gone through the XML hell, was not fun, even less so with a separate Tomcat instance that we had to deploy to, instead of an embedded one). In practice their huge effective pom.xml also leads to conflicts when your package needs something else and it feels a bit arcane to override things. There are things that have underlying technical reasons for being the way they are but seem stupid from afar - like how @Transactional doesn't work when called from within the same bean. Personally I also prefer code over convention for configuration and initialization so the whole annotation driven setup feels quite annoying and difficult to debug when things go wrong - but even the code configuration isn't always great and sometimes it feels like they have abstractions for the sake of abstractions. Spring Boot also often brings friends like MapStruct or Lombok or Mockito which add even more dynamic behavior and issues when you update JDK, alongside slow testing with JUnit and unpleasant debugging of jumping through numerous abstraction layers. You don't strictly have to, but people will.
I probably should have written down every complaint with exact details (so those could be picked apart as user error) over the years that I've been unfortunately maintaining and building shitty software with Java, but I will say this - modern Spring Boot isn't wholly horrible, it has a pretty rich ecosystem and you can do a lot of things with it, but the overall vibe I get from it ofen can be summarized with "Eww." I'd end up using it because I have to, or because it's a means to an end ("Hey, we need to build an event-driven system to integrate with a bunch of others, you have two weeks"), not because I want to.
For the sake of comparison, I believe that for plenty of the folks even Dropwizard would be worth a look: https://www.dropwizard.io/en/stable/ it is more or less like some glue around a bunch of idiomatic packages in the Java ecosystem and it's not horribly hard to integrate something that you want yourself (e.g. Dagger 2 for DI, at this point I'll take anything that does as much as possible at compile time https://dagger.dev/dev-guide/).
Or, for a more modern spin, Quarkus isn't too bad either https://quarkus.io/ or maybe Micronaut https://micronaut.io/ or perhaps Helidon https://helidon.io/ with neither of those being strong recommendations - figure out what you like for yourselves. For people that have been luckier than me, that might as well be the very same Spring Boot, just on better projects. JVM is a pretty cool piece of tech though, and so are the JetBrains IDEs with their refactoring features and nice Maven integration.
I was pretty surprised when I learned recently that the Java alternative for green threads doesn't use colored functions. It put Java in a higher place in my perception.
It doesn't completely solve function coloring though. Causing carrier threads to get pinned is still not good, similarly as calling blocking function from async function is not good in colored systems.
the people that work on Java & the JVM are very smart. it has become a best of breed language - hell its better than Go for industry purposes. the drawback with Java will always be the CULTURE - (maybe someone can insert a quote of how in physics progress is only made, when old physicist die - I don't wanna be morbid ) but with Java same that's when the culture will change. All those people using typescript (could be…
Why would anyone create a new language now? The existing ones are "good enough", and without a body of examples for LLMs to train on, a new language has little chance getting traction.
I learned IBM /360 assembler when I started in computers a long time ago. I haven't seen a line of assembler in many decades, but I'm sure it's a viable language still if you need it.
Java has won (alongside many other winners of course), now the AI drawbridge is being raised to stop new entrants and my pick is that Java will still be here in 50 years time, it's just no humans will be creating it.