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Science Fiction Is Dying. Long Live Post Sci-Fi?

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Re: Science Fiction Is Dying. Long Live Post Sci-Fi?

#101
post #86
post #81

Our societies used to look towards space and evolution, but today they are broken, retreating into their shells and clinging to the past. Much like post-WWII Japan, they seek refuge in fantasy worlds to escape reality, having abandoned the drive for progress. Most people don't realise just how damaging all of this is...

It doesn’t help that the people in the news for space-related things are mostly Elon Musk, claiming every so often that we’re really really close to be on Mars just to kicking the date further out as it approaches or Jeff Besoz who doesn’t have much better to offer than a space trip for Katy Perry and friends

Yeah, maybe that too, but the real point it's the people who don't dream anymore: once upon a time, kids dreamed of becoming astronauts, and teenagers of having their own private spaceship to roam the universe like nomads. Nowadays, they dream of being influencers...

That's what's changed, not so much the physical actions of some giant or government. It's the mindset, the dreams, and the desires of the masses.

Re: Science Fiction Is Dying. Long Live Post Sci-Fi?

#102

One recent phenomenon for me was falling in love with Tchaikovsky's Children of Time trilogy, which explores very long-term colony ships sent out with thousands of cryogenically sleeping people of various skillsets, and planets seeded with a virus that artificially causes non-human beings to develop a certain kind of intelligence of being able to transmit complex ideas to each other, leading to technological evolutio…

I don't like any of his fantasy, but like you, felt that children of time was marvelous.

It's really weird, I keep not starting Tyrant Philosphers because I am terrified it'll be awful and might lead me to not continue with his wonderful sci fi.

Re: Science Fiction Is Dying. Long Live Post Sci-Fi?

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there would be less striving for change Precisely, there would be nothing to strive for. As an engineer I often say "If everything in life went to plan it would be a very boring life indeed"

Yes, so the "computer" would continue running in this state without change --- which is presumably what the machines in charge wanted --- if there's supposed to be a reason which makes stress pleasing to the machines please state it in plain and simple terms (English is not my mother-tongue).

Your thinking that its the machines being pleased by the state is 100% wrong.

WHY would a machine need a simulation at all?

Re: Science Fiction Is Dying. Long Live Post Sci-Fi?

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, so the "computer" would continue running in this state without change --- which is presumably what the machines in charge wanted --- if there's supposed to be a reason which makes stress pleasing to the machines please state it in plain and simple terms (English is not my mother-tongue).

Your thinking that its the machines being pleased by the state is 100% wrong. WHY would a machine need a simulation at all?

In the original draft, the machines were using human brains as a networked computer. The simulation is necessary because sensory input and simulation is how human brains compute - it's for the humans, not the machines. Unfortunately the studios thought that was too complicated and we wound up with "lol batteries" and none of it makes any sense.

Also, I mean, because without that there wouldn't be a movie.

Re: Science Fiction Is Dying. Long Live Post Sci-Fi?

#105
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your thinking that its the machines being pleased by the state is 100% wrong. WHY would a machine need a simulation at all?

In the original draft, the machines were using human brains as a networked computer. The simulation is necessary because sensory input and simulation is how human brains compute - it's for the humans, not the machines. Unfortunately the studios thought that was too complicated and we wound up with "lol batteries" and none of it makes any sense. Also, I mean, because without that there wouldn't be a movie.

Yeah - the whole point of the simulation was to keep the brains engaged. A distraction if you will, from the fact that they aren't actually doing anything.

Re: Science Fiction Is Dying. Long Live Post Sci-Fi?

#106
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just lack of imagination.

Well, Ursula K. LeGuin did author _Always Coming Home_, which I quite enjoyed, but it's a very different book which only seems to have a niche audience.

I disliked _Always Coming Home_, substantially because it felt misandrous though the less optimistic setting probably also played a role (a post-industrial Earth with a rape victim as the "protagonist" and not a heroic victim who transforms evil and suffering into good). It did seem to be exceptional in literary quality, a strong extension of the divided story mechanism in _The Dispossessed_ (and _The Left Hand of Darkness_? — I do not remember how that novel was laid out). I did not listen to the audio produced for the books, so I did not receive the full experience, but the literary quality of the novel was excellent (in my opinion). (I especially liked the simple squirrel drawing, an odd bit of trivia to remember.)

(I thought the acknowledgement of life when killing a mosquito was an interesting cultural aspect.)

I did kind of wish that a monastic-like community (or university?) had been presented as seeking more benefit from the City of Mind. Unlike the tribe that asked how to make airplanes (which failed in their military objective), the monks/scholars would train to ask good questions, seeking to restore the land and encourage communication and cooperation among humans. Having even a small bunch of humans interested in such larger issues would have been more optimistic (and perhaps realistic as the existence of an actual Oracle might encourage some people to be scholars, making connections and asking questions). Of course, a ten volume novel would have been even less popular, and LeGuin clearly was motivated to write a more gritty novel.

Re: Science Fiction Is Dying. Long Live Post Sci-Fi?

#107

I have a hard time reading sci-fi these days because the rapid advances of AI have altered or closed off entirely a lot of the futures that I would find most interesting. I have a hard time seeing much other than computers in the future. Maybe stories like the Hyperion Cantos with the AIs in the TechnoCore largely fighting amongst themselves over the future of humanity are still intersting to me.

> the rapid advances of AI have altered or closed off entirely a lot of the futures that I would find most interesting. Opening them up again is a possible creative move. For example 'Dune', a far future where AIs and computers are banned and highly taboo because they caused too much trouble. Or there's alternate paths from the actual past such as steampunk in which we pushed mechanical engines further instead of swi…

I agree that opening up opportunities for other futures is good, but I don't think Dune was a good example of that even if you like the story -- Dune simply avoided the issue by assuming the future would implausibly turn into the past and that technology would be rejected and medieval feudalism and centralized religious control would return. A better, more plausible, future would show, as is often the case, that the technology we think is so ground-breaking today, just is integrated into daily life and hardly thought about rather than disappearing (which basically never happens).

Re: Science Fiction Is Dying. Long Live Post Sci-Fi?

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not want to read a bunch of gross torture porn, though. Greg Egan is far more interesting and spares you that.

That's _mostly_ just Consider Phlebas and Surface Detail.

Some of Player of Games, too. Use of Weapons has a creative piece of furniture. You gotta excuse Banks, he was also a horror writer.

Re: Science Fiction Is Dying. Long Live Post Sci-Fi?

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually no, he hasn't. Star Trek (back when it was good) worked because the writers were smart enough to trust the viewers to draw their own conclusions. They would set up a dilemma, let the characters give arguments on both sides, and then not openly take a side . Even when you could guess which side the writers were on, it almost never felt like they were lecturing you like a child. I am perfectly happy for scienc…

[Insert Picard rambling for ten minutes about how horrible money was; this happened multiple times in TNG] Nothing subtle about Star Trek's political stuff.

ham-handed.

Deep Space 9 touched on similar themes without long lectures

Re: Science Fiction Is Dying. Long Live Post Sci-Fi?

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps instead, the complaint should be that the reader should not be lectured about politics or sexuality in a ham-handed self-righteous insertion completely irrelevant to the rest of the story.

Well there goes Orson Scott Card, Asimov, Heinlein, Orwell, etc. The politics and sexuality were always in these stories. They were just more familiar, so they don't seem as self righteous. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is a classic example of a story with sexuality and politics in old timey sci fi.

I do not remember any of those books stopping for a several page lecture unrelated to any plot point.

Most of what I remember is the author using the action of the story to carry the point across.

The same is true of Star Trek ToS, and most of what I remember from deep space nine.

It is not that I am opposed to the ideas of flexing sexuality and politics in science fiction- quite the opposite. Take for instance, the culture series by Iain Banks. Fantastic work where If there is some lecturing done, it seems to fit smoothly into the flow of the work.

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