Live data from Hacker News

AI and the Ship of Theseus

lucumr.pocoo.org

101–110 of 203 posts

Re: AI and the Ship of Theseus

#101
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you train yourself by looking at GPL code then go implement your own things, is that code GPL?

it can be, depending on if it is different enough to convince a jury that it is not a copyright violation. See the lawsuits from Marvin Gaye's family to see how that can be unpredictable.

I would imagine there must also be some aspect of uniqueness to it as well for even recognizing where a line of code came from… otherwise almost every Python script might have copied this line from a GPL licensed program:

`if __name__ == "__main__":`

I have no idea where that line first appeared, so figuring out what license it was originally written under would be difficult to track down, and most software only has license info at the file rather than line level.

Re: AI and the Ship of Theseus

#102
post #19

hopefully this continues to show how awkward the idea of "intellectual property" (IP) is until people abandon it IP sounds good in theory but enables things like "patent trolling" by large corps and creating all kinds of goofy barriers and arbitrary questions like we're asking about if re-implementations of ideas are "really ours" (maybe they were never anyone's in the first place, outside of legally created mentalit…

I have no data to back this up but patent trolling seems to happen far less than companies that already own significant infra/talent ripping products from smaller companies and out competing them with their scale. I'd rather have patent trolling than have Amazon manufacturer everything i launch. The problem with IP laws and the US is that the big companies already do what IP is suppose to protect and the US refuses t…

And the reason for this is that there is no limit as to how much money corporations can pay for the election campaigns of politicians who make the laws. Right?

Re: AI and the Ship of Theseus

#103
> But this all causes some interesting new developments we are not necessarily ready for. Vercel, for instance, happily re-implemented bash with Clankers but got visibly upset when someone re-implemented Next.js in the same way.

Kinda surprised nobody commented on this

Re: AI and the Ship of Theseus

#105
post #89

Perhaps code licensing is going to become more similar to music. e.g. Somebody wrote a library, and then you had an LLM implement it in a new language. You didn't come up with the idea for whatever the library does, and you didn't "perform" the new implementation. You're neither writer nor performer, just the person who requested a new performance. You're basically a club owner who hired a band to cover some tunes. T…

If a recordoing is made in a club, doesn't the party doing the recording have the copyright to that (live) recording, or is it the performers?

Sans contract? Probably like if I take a photo of you holding a copy of a recent book. I own copy right of the photo. The author still has copyright of the book.

Re: AI and the Ship of Theseus

#106
Note the Ship of Theseus, while a nice comparison for the title, is not - as the author eventually points out - an appropriate analogy here. A fundamental contribution to the idea of whether the identity of the entity persists or not is the continuity between intermediate states.

In the example given and discussed here the last couple of days there seems to be a process more akin to having an AI create a cast of the pre-existing work and fill it for the new one.

Re: AI and the Ship of Theseus

#108
> Unlike the Ship of Theseus, though, this seems more clear-cut: if you throw away all code and start from scratch, even if the end result behaves the same, it’s a new ship.

That's not how copyright works. It doesn't require exact copies. You also can't just rephrase an existing book from scratch when the ideas expressed are essentially the same. Same with music.

Re: AI and the Ship of Theseus

#109
At what point does the cost of reimplementation shrink below the benefits of obfuscation? Consider a new CVE in Linux. Well maybe my Linux is not the same as the public one. Maybe I just set a swarm of AI agents on making me a drop in replacement that is different but with an identical interface. Same-same but different. Right now writing your own OS to replace the entirety of Linux would be costly and error prone. Foolish. But will it always? What happens when Claude Code Infinute Opus can 1-shot a perfect reimagining in 24 hours? Or 30 minutes? Do all my servers have the same copy or are they all slightly different implementations of the same thing? I dunno.

Re: AI and the Ship of Theseus

#110
> A court still might rule that all AI-generated code is in the public domain, because there was not enough human input in it. That’s quite possible, though probably not very likely.

Its not only likely, it is in fact the current position, at least in the US.

Post reply on HN