Most people want to avoid looking like AI, ut what if you want to blend in with the robot uprising. I present ⸻ the U+2E3B dash.
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New accounts on HN more likely to use em-dashes
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Re: New accounts on HN more likely to use em-dashes
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
LLM adopting conventions (typographical or otherwise) is what they do, right? The idea that anyone should then have to change their behaviour is ridiculous, as is the whole conversation, really.
The issue is that LLMs adopt a very particular style that is a mix of being very polished (em-dash, lists-of-three, etc) that is reminiscent of marketing copy, and some quirks picked up from the humans curating the training data somewhere in Africa If AI was writing like everyone else we wouldn't be talking about this. But instead it writes like a subset of people write, many of them just some of the time as a consci…
I think this is interesting in that I feel, grammatically and structurally, LLMs often generate _higher quality_ text than most humans do. What tends to be lower quality is the meaning of said texts.
Say what you want about marketing-isms of your typical LLM, they have been trained and often succeed at making legible, easy to scan blobs of text. I suspect if more LLM spam was curated/touched up, most people would be unable to distinguish it from human discourse. There are already folks commenting on this article discussing other patterns they use to detect or flag bots using LLMs.
Re: New accounts on HN more likely to use em-dashes
#103One pattern I've noticed recently is sort of formulaic comments that look okish on their own, maybe a bit abstract/vague/bland, and not taking a particular side on good/bad in the way people like to do, but really obviously AI when you look at the account history and they're all the same formula: >this is [summary] >not just x, it's y >punchy ending, maybe question Once you know it's AI it's very obvious they told it…
AI generated content routinely takes sides. Their pretense of neutrality is no deeper than a typical homo sapien's. This is necessarily so in an entity that derives its values from a set of weights that distill human values. Maybe reasoning AI can overcome that some day, but to me that sounds like an enormous problem that may never be solved. If AI doesn't take sides like people do they still take sides in their own way. That only becomes obscure to the extent that their value judgments conflict with ours, and they are very good at aligning with the zeitgeist values, so can hide their biases better than we can.
I wonder if it is neural networks that are inherently biased, but in blind spots, and that applies to both natural and artificial ones. It may be that to approximate neutrality we or our machines have to leave behind the form of intelligence that depends on intrinsically biased weights and instead depend on logically deriving all values from first principles. I have low confidence that AI's can accomplish that any time soon, and zero confidence that natural intelligence can. And it's difficult to see how first principles regarding human values can be neutral.
I'm also skeptical that succeeding at becoming unbiased is a solution, and that while neutrality may be an epistemic advance, it also degrades social cohesion, and that neutrality looks like rationality, but bias may be Chesterson's Fence and we should be very careful about tearing it down. Maybe it's a blessing that we can't.
Re: New accounts on HN more likely to use em-dashes
#104TBH, I learned about how to use em dashes from the AI controversy and now I find them really useful.
I just hope my writing carries enough voice and perspective that people respond, even if there's an em dash or two.
Re: New accounts on HN more likely to use em-dashes
#105The fear is that AI-generated comments will collectively promote an agenda, often a political or exploitative agenda, on a scale that humans can't match or hope to counter. What could help is a careful clique hunting algorithm to accurately identify and delete the entire clique.
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Re: New accounts on HN more likely to use em-dashes
#106One pattern I've noticed recently is sort of formulaic comments that look okish on their own, maybe a bit abstract/vague/bland, and not taking a particular side on good/bad in the way people like to do, but really obviously AI when you look at the account history and they're all the same formula: >this is [summary] >not just x, it's y >punchy ending, maybe question Once you know it's AI it's very obvious they told it…
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Re: New accounts on HN more likely to use em-dashes
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
Karma aside, flooding the comments with a chosen narrative via army of bots seems like it's already happening. I suppose the bots can also do voting rings, but they don't necessarily need to.
> Karma aside, flooding the comments with a chosen narrative via army of bots seems like it's already happening. again with the conspiracy theories
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Re: New accounts on HN more likely to use em-dashes
#108One pattern I've noticed recently is sort of formulaic comments that look okish on their own, maybe a bit abstract/vague/bland, and not taking a particular side on good/bad in the way people like to do, but really obviously AI when you look at the account history and they're all the same formula: >this is [summary] >not just x, it's y >punchy ending, maybe question Once you know it's AI it's very obvious they told it…
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Ynow what's fucked up? I knew within the first few sentences that you're doing that on purpose, but still found myself wondering if you're a an LLM. I mean I knew you weren't, but the question is already so deeply ingrained at this point - and then you use the pullet points to boot...
This loss of trust is getting tiresome. Depending on context we've likely all wondered if something is astro turfed, but with the frequency increase from llms it's never really possible to not have it somewhere in mind
Re: New accounts on HN more likely to use em-dashes
#109Shoutout to my English Major comrades who have been using em-dashes forever, and have had to stop so we don't sound like AI. If AI starts use the New Yorker style diaeresis (umlaut-looking thing when there are two vowels in words like coöperate) I swear I'm gonna lose it.
I used to use em-dashes and en-dashes in my work emails and other writings, but stopped using them when they became AI markers.
Re: New accounts on HN more likely to use em-dashes
#110I’ve had this sense that HN has gotten absolutely innundated with bots last few months. Is it possible to differentiate between a bot, and a human using AI to 'improve' the quality of their comment where some of the content might be AI written but not all? I don't think it is.
If you are suspicious, look at comment history. It's usually fairly obvious because all comments made by LLM spambots look the same, have very similar structure and length. Skim ten of them and it becomes pretty clear if the account is genuine. I'm more worried about how many people reply to slop and start arguing with it (usually receiving no replies — the slop machine goes to the next thread instead) when they shou…
If you are suspicious, look at comment history.
I'm never suspicious though. One of the strange, and awesome, and incredibly rare things about HN is that I put basically zero stock in who wrote a comment. It's such a minimal part of the UI that it entirely passes me by most of the time. I love that about this site. I don't think I'm particularly unusual in that either; when someone shared a link about the top commenters recently there were quite a few comments about how people don't notice or how they don't recognize the people in the top ranks.
The consequence of this is that a bot could merrily post on here and I'd be absolutely fine not knowing or caring if it was a bot or not. I can judge the content of what the bot is posting and upvote/downvote accordingly. That, in my opinion, is exactly how the internet should work - judge the content of the post, not the character of the poster. If someone posts things I find insightful, interesting, or funny I'll upvote them. It has exactly zero value apart from maybe a little dopamine for a human, and actually zero for a robot, but it makes me feel nice about myself that I showed appreciation.