Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

itv.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 236 posts

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#101

Post by JCattheATM »

blfr wrote: post #59

It is constantly shocking to me that no matter how many times and where in the west people vote against immigration (which is what most of these votes boil down to), they can never get it. It's truly a crown in the gutter moment where you can be completely off-the-wall nuts (vide AfD) and, if you're just willing to campaign on anti-immigration, your ranks will instantly swell. Yet the establishment is somehow complet…

The real problem is the uneducated masses who buy the propaganda that immigration is the issue they should care about the most.

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#102

Post by jorvi »

blfr wrote: post #73
ForHackernews wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume it's economically catastrophic to cut off the supply of young, low-wage labour and that's why no responsible government will ever do it.

This would be a good explanation but most of these immigrants, especially from outside the EU, are not net contributors. vide https://www.economist.com/sites/default/files/images/print-e... from https://www.economist.com/europe/2021/12/18/why-have-danes-t... And I highly doubt other governments don't have similar calculations or aren't aware of them.

That Economist stat often gets misunderstood. It is "net contribution to public finances" (= how much taxes do they pay), not "net contribution to the economy". This is because they are overly represented in low wage jobs, or indeed on longterm welfare. People in the lowest tax brackets pay very little of it.

I do agree that there needs to be a honest conversation about what (economic) immigrants offer vs. what they cost, but it needs to be done properly.

We will need immigrants because we are below 2.1 in Total Fertility Rate. But, the EU doesn't need to be the comfy life raft of the world as it has been for the past 2-3 decades.

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#103

Post by crims0n »

ido wrote: post #90
crims0n wrote: post #85

Been reading a lot of novels set during the golden years of the British Empire. It is both amazing and terrifying how far a country can fall in less than a century… which for some lucky people is a single lifetime.

Both the average and mean UK citizen is unambiguously better off today than whenever the golden age of the empire was.

I don’t doubt that, it’s just crazy for me to think that less than 100 years ago they were six times the size of the Roman Empire, and the dominant superpower on earth.

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#104

Post by anonymars »

breakyerself wrote: post #75
ForHackernews wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume it's economically catastrophic to cut off the supply of young, low-wage labour and that's why no responsible government will ever do it.

Bingo. Just like wanting to leave the EU was self destructive cutting off immigration is as well. The US is in the process of trying to hobble its own economy right now.

The image I have in both cases is the working class shooting itself in the stomach to hit the elites standing behind them

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#105

Post by juggerl6 »

ido wrote: post #90
crims0n wrote: post #85

Been reading a lot of novels set during the golden years of the British Empire. It is both amazing and terrifying how far a country can fall in less than a century… which for some lucky people is a single lifetime.

Both the average and mean UK citizen is unambiguously better off today than whenever the golden age of the empire was.

[flagged]

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#106

Post by kjksf »

smspillaz wrote: post #84
blfr wrote: post #59

It is constantly shocking to me that no matter how many times and where in the west people vote against immigration (which is what most of these votes boil down to), they can never get it. It's truly a crown in the gutter moment where you can be completely off-the-wall nuts (vide AfD) and, if you're just willing to campaign on anti-immigration, your ranks will instantly swell. Yet the establishment is somehow complet…

But they do meaningfully try to address this. Almost every country in the west is tightening it's system. In the UK claiming ILR will take a significantly longer period of lawful residence, and a shorter time will require you to meet a high income threshold. It is nearly impossible to get PR in Canada now unless you are fluent in both English and French and have a PhD or several years of canadian work experience. The…

The only meaningful action would be to stop well fare for immigrants. You don't work, you don't have money.

Madness is for UK government to tax UK citizens to pay for housing and food of immigrants.

Incentives drive behavior. If you're African and see you can live for free in England, of course you'll try to get that deal. And in age of social media, they know.

Denmark did that and saw dramatic drop in number of people trying to immigrate there.

What you desperately try to paint as racism is just immune response from UK citizens.

They can see their taxes are raising, gov services are getting worse but gov finds the money to pay for housing for 110 thousand immigrants.

They connect the dots and that's why Reform UK would win the elections (if the elections were done today).

Because Labour, which won election recently with good majority, is not, in fact, ignoring voters and not doing anything meaningful.

Reform UK promises drastic changes because that's what majority of UK votes are demanding now.

It's how democracy is supposed to work. The politicians are supposed to be responsive to demands of voters.

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#107

Post by a_ba »

kjksf wrote: post #106
smspillaz wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they do meaningfully try to address this. Almost every country in the west is tightening it's system. In the UK claiming ILR will take a significantly longer period of lawful residence, and a shorter time will require you to meet a high income threshold. It is nearly impossible to get PR in Canada now unless you are fluent in both English and French and have a PhD or several years of canadian work experience. The…

The only meaningful action would be to stop well fare for immigrants. You don't work, you don't have money. Madness is for UK government to tax UK citizens to pay for housing and food of immigrants. Incentives drive behavior. If you're African and see you can live for free in England, of course you'll try to get that deal. And in age of social media, they know. Denmark did that and saw dramatic drop in number of peop…

care to take your vile racism elsewhere?

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#108

Post by Smaug123 »

0_____0 wrote: post #65
HPsquared wrote: post #30

The UK is such a trap for professionals. It's one of the worst places in the developed world for living standards of white-collar professionals, except a tiny slice of finance workers in London. Especially bad for engineers, and has been for a long time.

I was reading about UK housing and had to look up "rising damp." We don't have that here, or at least not to the level we need a word for it.

The UK climate never really stops being moist, and our houses are routinely at least a hundred years old and made of brick, built before we knew how to deal with damp and built without AC. If we rebuilt everything we'd fix it, but we can't.

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#109

Post by NullCascade »

blfr wrote: post #59

It is constantly shocking to me that no matter how many times and where in the west people vote against immigration (which is what most of these votes boil down to), they can never get it. It's truly a crown in the gutter moment where you can be completely off-the-wall nuts (vide AfD) and, if you're just willing to campaign on anti-immigration, your ranks will instantly swell. Yet the establishment is somehow complet…

the anti-immigration right in Denmark was successful because they were data-driven and could show that unskilled non-Western immigration was a net negative even by 3rd generation.

the American and German far-right by contrast seem to be the polar opposite of data-driven. No the lazy 'IQ by country' maps don't count.

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#110

Post by drcongo »

sgt wrote: post #58
saubeidl wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Help me understand your thinking. I was very against Brexit (and still am). What is there to be gained, in your opinion? In my view, you traded being one of the leading voices in what is increasingly shaping up to be one of the world's superpowers for being a somewhat isolated middle power, nostalgic for its former glory. Why would that be worth it?

UK did not need the EU for trade agreements. Those can be set up separately. There were a number of examples where the UK kept losing control, and instead having the EU try to determine the direction. This led to loss in sovereignty and freedom. Sadly though it doesn't seem like the UK politicians are taking advantage of this (regulatory, laws, borders, immigrations etc) just yet, but at least now it's possible. My p…

> This led to loss in sovereignty and freedom

I think you need to expand on this into some kind of actual, tangible result, this is just feelings. And even for feelings, it's nonsense - before Brexit my kids could legally move and work anywhere in the EU, how are they more free now?

Post reply on HN