I’m curious how Apple will malicious-compliance its way out of this one. It will have to be no more iDevices for the EU, I guess.
EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)
101–110 of 198 posts
Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)
#102It’s not clear to me from this, but I hope that the “removability” component of this means the end of “disposable” vapes with a fixed lithium battery installed. I can’t even count the number of these I’ve seen littering the roadside. Ideally this raises the cost of that business model enough to also eliminate some vendors from that product category (“disposable” vapes), which is primarily aimed at/used by children an…
Yes, they will be banned to EU-wide
Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)
#103Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)
#104Are they going to have an exception for waterproof phones? Seems like it would be challenging to implement replaceable batteries while maintaining waterproofing. Are there any waterproof phones on the market with removable batteries?
Sony made a water-proof phone long before fixed batteries became fashionable.
Samsung too
Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)
#105The EU is displaying exactly the kind of political leadership we need in this topic: pro-consumer, pro-environment, and firmly against planned obsolescence. Removable batteries were the industry standard in the early days of mobile phones, and it worked perfectly. We only lost that standard when Apple’s 'walled garden' mindset infected the rest of the industry. The amount of avoidable e-waste generated since then is…
Removable batteries were standard in the early days of mobile phones (and laptops) out of necessity: batteries in those days just weren’t very good. They didn’t last long, took hours to charge, and wore out relatively quickly. You’d carry a spare battery around and swap over when your first one ran out. Now days, there is much less need for that because a charge lasts much longer, and if you do run low you can fast c…
I remember early cell phones (not smart phones, mind you) having weeks of standby time, or something like 20 hours of talk time. These had replaceable batteries. I don't recall people carrying spare batteries being a thing..?
Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
Re. mobile phones it is because it allows sleeker and thinner design, and IMHO it wasn't that common to replace batteries, anyway. But, really this is a non-issue because if you need a new battery for you phone, including iphone and samsung, just get it replaced. That's not super common to need it (again) but there is no issue having it done. I had it done before. So overall I am skeptical that it will make a differe…
Replaceable batteries mean that you can just buy two or more and just carry them around so you can charge them less often. Alternatively you can charge the battery at home while you are away with the phone and have no down time for charging. (Down time meaning you can't carry the phone around.)
> ”Replaceable batteries mean that you can just buy two or more and just carry them around so you can charge them less often.”
If you think this is what the EU battery regulation means, I’ve got some bad news for you.
Besides, as others pointed out, encouraging people to carry around multiple batteries for their devices would just lead to more e-waste, not less.
Also, carrying “naked” Li-ion batteries that are not installed in a device is prohibited on airlines - another reason why it shouldn’t be encouraged!
Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
No it won't. It's about reducing eWaste from the devices itself. Throwing away a whole device just because the battery is bad is much worse than just throwing away a worn out battery. My 9 year old ThinkPad T470 is doing well with his 3rd or 4rd battery (and a new SSD and more RAM). Also external powerbanks are pretty unpractical compared to a fresh new internal battery.
This is indeed a policy aimed at reducing e-waste, including resources and harmful substances from batteries. So allow to find that "yay I can buy more batteries!" is a highly ironic response. And again, all the statements that it this "obviously" better than possibly buying a new phone seem to lack any references to actual data...
I can't believe you're arguing in good faith. Obviously just replacing the battery is better than replacing the whole device and all it's components just because the battery is bad.
The User above also said he bought two or three batteries, so he can swap them out when the battery is empty (I've also done this with my laptop) and distributing the charging cycles between the batteries, so they will all last longer.
If he wasn't a power user, he wouldn't drop money on two or three batteries in the beginning, and just buy a new one when the old goes bad.
Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
The point being made is that if batteries can be replaced without specialized tools and training, the chances of that being done could be higher, potentially leading to longer usage time and reduced e-waste.
Obviously. I understand the stated aim. My point is that things are rarely obvious. As you say, it "could". It is not obvious that it will make a difference and it might also increase the materials needed on both phones and battery. I think the EU and European countries have much bigger fish to fry, including with regards to the environment.
> I think the EU and European countries have much bigger fish to fry, including with regards to the environment.
Yes. And they should fry those too.
Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)
#109The EU is displaying exactly the kind of political leadership we need in this topic: pro-consumer, pro-environment, and firmly against planned obsolescence. Removable batteries were the industry standard in the early days of mobile phones, and it worked perfectly. We only lost that standard when Apple’s 'walled garden' mindset infected the rest of the industry. The amount of avoidable e-waste generated since then is…
Removable batteries were standard in the early days of mobile phones (and laptops) out of necessity: batteries in those days just weren’t very good. They didn’t last long, took hours to charge, and wore out relatively quickly. You’d carry a spare battery around and swap over when your first one ran out. Now days, there is much less need for that because a charge lasts much longer, and if you do run low you can fast c…
Mandating removable batteries does not _force_ you to buy a second battery. It _enables_ you to. By proxy this enables you to fix a failing battery yourself, at home. Replacing a battery instead of the whole device would create less e-waste. Just an example.
Further to the above, my Nokia (32|33|51)10's battery lasted a hell of a lot longer than any iPhone I have owned.
Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)
#110The replaceable battery yes.. but the buried lede imo is the material recovery targets. EU imports basically 100% of its lithium and cobalt ( https://rmis.jrc.ec.europa.eu/rmp/Lithium ). Mandating high recycling rates for exactly those materials is industrial policy in an environmental costume. Same pattern as their payments regulation ( https://philippdubach.com/posts/europes-24-trillion-payment-... ), frame soverei…
> EU imports basically 100% of its lithium
We don't have to. There's a large spodumene resource in Portugal.
> and cobalt
Finland alone could cover all of the European Union's need for cobalt even with zero recycling.
https://www.lyellcollection.org/doi/full/10.1144/geoenergy20...
Not that I am against recycling of lithium and cobalt -- it's just that it isn't actually needed when we could fairly easily mine both if we wanted to. Lithium recycling is commercially viable as far as I know so there's no need for the EU to legislate anything. Cobalt recycling from bigger batteries probably is, other kinds of cobalt recycling probably isn't.