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Tailscale Peer Relays is now generally available

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Re: Tailscale Peer Relays is now generally available

#101

Post by tonyplee »

nickburns wrote: post #87
madeofpalk wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you handle the do-before-thinking devs? Isn't that exactly what tailscale is built to accommodate - zero trust? You set up ACLs and other permissions to not allow people to do more than the damage you can tolerate.

Zerconf ≠ zero trust. The difference could not be more material in this context.

If both sides of your ssh tunnel (pub,private keys) are under your control, in theory, that's "zero trust".

Unless one considers the meta data such as src/dest IP are visible to Tailscale sw.

Right?

Re: Tailscale Peer Relays is now generally available

#102

Post by jak6jak »

I looked into tailscale in the past as a way to host a game server such as minecraft on my local machine publicly without port forwarding . It seems that tailscale is mostly configured only to work with people you know and trust. I was hoping that Peer Relays would help alleviate some restrictions with tailwind funnel. Does anyone know any alternatives?

Re: Tailscale Peer Relays is now generally available

#103

Post by batrat »

fdefitte wrote: post #88
behnamoh wrote: post #3

How does Tailscale make money? I really like their service but I'm worried about a rug pull in the future. Has anyone tried alternative FOSS solutions? Also, sometimes it seems like I get rate limited on Tailscale. Has anyone had that experience? This usually happens with multiple SSH connections at the same time.

[dead]

It happened to others but there are also some very good examples like Veeam community edition which, IMO, is the best backup software. They had lots of discussions and even pressure from management to terminated, but the numbers made a lot of sense and they kept it. Tailscale is in disadvantage here because they are in a very crowded market and it will be very easy to slip into one corner and let way for others like netbird, netmaker, nebula(?), wireguard (like u said), etc.

Re: Tailscale Peer Relays is now generally available

#104

Post by jak6jak »

tda wrote: post #2

I just set this up the other day, and I got my ping to drop from 16 to 10ms, and my bandwidth tripled, when connecting from a remote natted site to a matter desktop my house. Together with Moonlight/Sunshine I can now play Windows games on my Linux desktop from my MacBook, with 50mbps/10ms streaming. So far so good! Not a single port forwarded, I just set my router up as peer node.

That seems really exciting! If you wanted to share game streaming to a general public would they have to install tailscale on their device/login? How does that work? Am I right in assuming that tailscale is built mostly for sharing resources with people you trust instead of the general public?

Re: Tailscale Peer Relays is now generally available

#105

Post by bityard »

I wonder if someone might indulge me by answering a question or two about Tailscale. I have a self-managed wireguard network which works, but probably isn't very smart or elegant.

From what I can gather, Tailscale does a lot of "magic" things to accomplish its goals, and some of them actually have "magic" right in the name. As a system administrator by trade, I have been bitten SO MANY TIMES by things that try to automagically mess with DNS resolution, routing tables, firewall rules, etc in the name of user-friendliness. (Often, things that even ship with the OS itself.)

Are there any documentation or articles detailing exactly what it's doing under the hood? I found https://tailscale.com/docs/concepts but it doesn't really cover everything.

If I have a virtualization host with, let's call it a "very custom" networking configuration, how likely is it to interfere with things? Is it polite and smart about working around fancy networking setups, or does it really only handle the common cases (one networking interface, a default route, public nameserver) elegantly?

Re: Tailscale Peer Relays is now generally available

#106

Post by nickburns »

tonyplee wrote: post #101
nickburns wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zerconf ≠ zero trust. The difference could not be more material in this context.

If both sides of your ssh tunnel (pub,private keys) are under your control, in theory, that's "zero trust". Unless one considers the meta data such as src/dest IP are visible to Tailscale sw. Right?

'Zero trust' has a technical definition that's not really relevant here. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_trust.

The concept is separate from 'zero config' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-configuration_networking), which Tailscale's low technical barrier to entry evokes.

Re: Tailscale Peer Relays is now generally available

#107

Post by Computer0 »

bityard wrote: post #105

I wonder if someone might indulge me by answering a question or two about Tailscale. I have a self-managed wireguard network which works, but probably isn't very smart or elegant. From what I can gather, Tailscale does a lot of "magic" things to accomplish its goals, and some of them actually have "magic" right in the name. As a system administrator by trade, I have been bitten SO MANY TIMES by things that try to aut…

Headscale is an open source alternative, I haven't read the code but it might be a good place to start: https://github.com/juanfont/headscale

Re: Tailscale Peer Relays is now generally available

#108

Post by earthscienceman »

himata4113 wrote: post #15

I never brought my self to use tailscale because it has a login screen and I absolutely despise that even as a concept for a private NAT. I know headscale exists, but it doesn't seem to even support the features I really want.

I can't believe this isn't a show stopper for more people here. I literally couldn't figure out how use it the first time tried because I didn't know how to comprehend that it was trying to get me to auth via browser window. I kept digging around for a tailscale.conf.

Which is then when I realized it was less a piece of software and more so an auth management provider with some vaguely helpful auxillary services.

Re: Tailscale Peer Relays is now generally available

#109

Post by Forgeties79 »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #95
ZoomZoomZoom wrote: post #75

If you're sold on Tailscale due to them "being open" (as they semi-officially support the development of Headscale), keep in mind, that at the same time some of their clients are closed source and proprietary, and thus totally controlled by them and the official distribution channels, like Apple. Some of the arguments given for this stance are just ridiculous: > If users are comfortable running non-open operating sys…

"Support free alternatives if you can, even if they underperform by some measure." I value _control_ more than I do performance Better performance is, IMHO, not a reason to sacrifice _control_, but that's just me If users have control, i.e., can compile from source, then in theory performance improvement is possible through DIY or work of others. However performance is not always the only important issue. Today's com…

Basically a lot of current software teams operate like many modern video game companies. Ship the broken thing, (maybe) repair/improve it as people suffer through the experience.

Re: Tailscale Peer Relays is now generally available

#110

Post by patmorgan23 »

bityard wrote: post #105

I wonder if someone might indulge me by answering a question or two about Tailscale. I have a self-managed wireguard network which works, but probably isn't very smart or elegant. From what I can gather, Tailscale does a lot of "magic" things to accomplish its goals, and some of them actually have "magic" right in the name. As a system administrator by trade, I have been bitten SO MANY TIMES by things that try to aut…

I believe the client is open source and there's a reverse engineered server (that some tail scale employees contribute to)
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