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Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 6.19

asahilinux.org

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Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 6.19

#101

Post by Tuna-Fish »

gr4vityWall wrote: post #3

Great work. I believe used M1/M2 machines will be favored by young developers as their personal fun laptop in a few years, like the Thinkpad T420 used to be. For different reasons, of course. Do the M4 and M5 GPUs also change a lot from the M3? I hope it's not too much work to get those going once M3 is usable.

> I believe used M1/M2 machines will be favored by young developers as their personal fun laptop in a few years

I doubt it. For one, the SSDs have limited lifespans, and are soldered on the mainboard. They'll be fine enough for the planned life of the laptop, but eventually secondary market laptops will start seeing waves of failures, at which point people learn that purchasing one is a gamble.

The entire Apple silicon lineup is designed for limited lifespan.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 6.19

#102

Post by porphyra »

cardanome wrote: post #94
WD-42 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are aware. They are also aware of the designs sitting in the cabinet right next to them in Cupertino that would make all the reverse engineering instantly unnecessary. Such a monumentally Sisyphean waste of effort in behalf of the Asahi devs in my opinion. If you care about personal computing or Linux, don’t buy a Mac.

The problem is that now one else is currently making hardware that is competitive with apple silicone. Apple is the only one offering both performance and battery time. I love my Thinkpads, I really do but they are bulky, loud and the battery doesn't last very long. They are not an option for many people.

Technically:

1. Asahi Linux's battery life is like 2/3 as long as on macOS

2. The Thinkpad X1 Carbon is just about as thin and nice as a Mac but it also costs just as much.

3. Apple is still leading in single core CPU speeds but x86 has caught up or surpassed M devices in both multicore and graphics. And even last gen x86 can beat the 3-generations-old M2 that is the latest one supported by Asahi Linux.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 6.19

#103

Post by ARandomerDude »

This is amazing work, and I certainly respect the talent of those involved.

That said, my question to those interested is why? I've been a daily user of both Ubuntu since 2005 and Mac since 2012. There are some edge case differences but for the most part they are so similar that I nearly always run the same code on both without modification. Clearly I'm missing something important but I'm curious what it is. Thanks in advance.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 6.19

#104

Post by matthew28845 »

ARandomerDude wrote: post #103

This is amazing work, and I certainly respect the talent of those involved. That said, my question to those interested is why? I've been a daily user of both Ubuntu since 2005 and Mac since 2012. There are some edge case differences but for the most part they are so similar that I nearly always run the same code on both without modification. Clearly I'm missing something important but I'm curious what it is. Thanks i…

One reason is for continued software support after Apple drops macOS compatibility for your machine. Intel Macs could be patched to run newer, unsupported OS versions (essentially hackintoshing your real Mac) but from my understanding that's basically impossible for Apple Silicon Macs.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 6.19

#105

Post by netule »

Tuna-Fish wrote: post #101
gr4vityWall wrote: post #3

Great work. I believe used M1/M2 machines will be favored by young developers as their personal fun laptop in a few years, like the Thinkpad T420 used to be. For different reasons, of course. Do the M4 and M5 GPUs also change a lot from the M3? I hope it's not too much work to get those going once M3 is usable.

> I believe used M1/M2 machines will be favored by young developers as their personal fun laptop in a few years I doubt it. For one, the SSDs have limited lifespans, and are soldered on the mainboard. They'll be fine enough for the planned life of the laptop, but eventually secondary market laptops will start seeing waves of failures, at which point people learn that purchasing one is a gamble. The entire Apple silic…

Exactly, the entire appeal of Thinkpads is their ability to be repaired and upgraded by the end user. MacBooks are designed to be disposable.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 6.19

#106

Post by mrkstu »

porphyra wrote: post #102
cardanome wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that now one else is currently making hardware that is competitive with apple silicone. Apple is the only one offering both performance and battery time. I love my Thinkpads, I really do but they are bulky, loud and the battery doesn't last very long. They are not an option for many people.

Technically: 1. Asahi Linux's battery life is like 2/3 as long as on macOS 2. The Thinkpad X1 Carbon is just about as thin and nice as a Mac but it also costs just as much. 3. Apple is still leading in single core CPU speeds but x86 has caught up or surpassed M devices in both multicore and graphics. And even last gen x86 can beat the 3-generations-old M2 that is the latest one supported by Asahi Linux.

Re:3- only because they've only released the base M3 so far- once they release Pro/Max configs they'll easily regain the lead, as seen by the single core dominance.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 6.19

#107

Post by bigyabai »

Bigpet wrote: post #15
sohrob wrote: post #2

I often wonder whether the folks at Apple have the Asahi team on their radar. Are they in awe of the reverse engineering marvels coming out of the Asahi project, or are they indifferent to it?

I think the dev that was responsible for the bootloader or some security chip having the option to be opened posted on twitter a while ago. Pretty sure he implied or mentioned that this was what he was hoping for. Edit: this was what I was remembering: https://x.com/XenoKovah/status/1339914714055368704

In fairness; that decision predates the existence of Asahi. Unless Apple was working with the community before Apple Silicon dropped, this isn't much acknowledgement of their existence.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 6.19

#108

Post by bigyabai »

_ph_ wrote: post #70
WD-42 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we make excuses for apple because that’s how it used to be back in the bad old days? This is flawed logic. As for alternatives, there are many.

Like which, especially with an ARM processor?

Your pick of the litter, if you intend to run Linux. Snapdragon laptops, Ampere desktops, or even a Raspberry Pi with an RTX 5090 if you wanted.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 6.19

#109

Post by zozbot234 »

freeAgent wrote: post #97
zozbot234 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

M1 and M2 hardware isn't going anywhere. They're still great machines. And progress will be faster once the project finishes getting their code merged into the existing Linux kernel and distros. They have a first alpha of M3 ready, they're just refraining from releasing it in that state because they're so busy with everything else they're doing - a key difference compared to when they first came out with alpha suppor…

I’m sad because the WiFi on my M1 MBA is dying/dead and there’s no way to replace it without swapping the whole “logic board.” Apple also doesn’t support any USB WiFi adapters in recent versions of MacOS, so it’s now tethered to a wired network connection. I’m just waiting for the M5 refresh to hit at this point. Anyway, all that’s to say that at least some M1 hardware is going to to the trash heap soon :(

USB is a standard protocol, so Asahi should support USB WiFi adapters just fine. Is Bluetooth also impacted?

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 6.19

#110

Post by cromka »

Tuna-Fish wrote: post #101
gr4vityWall wrote: post #3

Great work. I believe used M1/M2 machines will be favored by young developers as their personal fun laptop in a few years, like the Thinkpad T420 used to be. For different reasons, of course. Do the M4 and M5 GPUs also change a lot from the M3? I hope it's not too much work to get those going once M3 is usable.

> I believe used M1/M2 machines will be favored by young developers as their personal fun laptop in a few years I doubt it. For one, the SSDs have limited lifespans, and are soldered on the mainboard. They'll be fine enough for the planned life of the laptop, but eventually secondary market laptops will start seeing waves of failures, at which point people learn that purchasing one is a gamble. The entire Apple silic…

Absolutely not.

SSD can be resoldered and that service is actually becoming popular and inexpensive. It's not just MacBooks, nearly all laptops have SSD and RAM soldered. This will become a totally normal thing in a few years from now.

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