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A Programmer's Loss of Identity

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Re: A Programmer's Loss of Identity

#101

Post by steve1977 »

zabzonk wrote: post #41
jacquesm wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or literally a part of the self, which is what the OP was getting at I think. And there is plenty of that in the software world. "I'm a Rubyist", "I'm a Pythonista", "A rustacean" and so on. There is plenty of identity ridiculousness. I've been a C programmer but I've also been a basic programmer an assembly language programmer, a PHP programmer, a FORTH programmer and a whole list of others. To me that collapses to…

> "I'm a Rubyist", "I'm a Pythonista", "A rustacean" it suddenly struck me that there has never, AFAIK, a single-word noun for a C++ programmer. not sure what, if anything, this implies.

I'm a Swiftie! Oh wait... oh no...

Re: A Programmer's Loss of Identity

#102

Post by rorylaitila »

I can totally relate. I enjoy the craft of developing and making the product 'just right.' I do use AI as a fancy auto-complete, but I don't want to lose situational awareness and go full-vibe. I think that is the sweet spot for me, just another tool. However, I see my market value of this style of work rapidly deteriorating. I'm suspect I'll be the programming-Amish. I am probably going to transition my business to more of a community-studio, with tech being an implementation detail.

Re: A Programmer's Loss of Identity

#103

Post by hcs »

zabzonk wrote: post #41
jacquesm wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or literally a part of the self, which is what the OP was getting at I think. And there is plenty of that in the software world. "I'm a Rubyist", "I'm a Pythonista", "A rustacean" and so on. There is plenty of identity ridiculousness. I've been a C programmer but I've also been a basic programmer an assembly language programmer, a PHP programmer, a FORTH programmer and a whole list of others. To me that collapses to…

> "I'm a Rubyist", "I'm a Pythonista", "A rustacean" it suddenly struck me that there has never, AFAIK, a single-word noun for a C++ programmer. not sure what, if anything, this implies.

A Seymour

Re: A Programmer's Loss of Identity

#104

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

steve1977 wrote: post #99
iberator wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lost my job as a programmer and I think it's over for me. No, you will not hack the device drivers in the basement but you're gonna be flipping burgers and out of cash or energy for anything else. Worst thing: you never gonna even be good at flipping burgers without experience or young age... Once you are out of the field, and your money is gone: suddenly you are useless, old trash. No one even wants to employ ex p…

Who's gonna be able to afford burgers?

Burgers are cheap! You can easily find a place that has something meat-adjacent with too much bun and certified cheesonium topping for less than $30. Don't just try it once, start a layaway plan now so you can enjoy that three times a year!

Re: A Programmer's Loss of Identity

#105

Post by steve1977 »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #104
steve1977 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's gonna be able to afford burgers?

Burgers are cheap! You can easily find a place that has something meat-adjacent with too much bun and certified cheesonium topping for less than $30. Don't just try it once, start a layaway plan now so you can enjoy that three times a year!

I wish this was sarcasm...

Re: A Programmer's Loss of Identity

#106

Post by viking123 »

iberator wrote: post #48
softwaredoug wrote: post #13

> Which is to say that the pleasure I get from programming is mostly about learning the underlying truths about computation and applying what I’ve learned. Always improving the craft. This, to me, is the practice of programming. I guess when you get to a certain age (I'm 45) I stop caring whether something like this has social value. I enjoy it anyways. Wanting to know how things work always brings me back. I don't c…

I lost my job as a programmer and I think it's over for me. No, you will not hack the device drivers in the basement but you're gonna be flipping burgers and out of cash or energy for anything else. Worst thing: you never gonna even be good at flipping burgers without experience or young age... Once you are out of the field, and your money is gone: suddenly you are useless, old trash. No one even wants to employ ex p…

If I lose my job and fail to get another one in reasonable time, I guess I'll try my own business, if that also fails it might be the rope then.

At least I am not tied by family so I can be relatively mobile, I moved to Singapore from my European country since the market was not great and I managed to get hired here.

Anyway in my current company the bottlenecks are completely different than AI so it will take a fair amount of time to even apply AI properly to development here.

Re: A Programmer's Loss of Identity

#107

Post by [deleted] »

m463 wrote: post #91
kuboble wrote: post #67

What resonates the most with me in the article is this quote > I was so naïve that I thought progress could only go one direction, because that’s all I’d ever known. As kids growing up in Eastern Europe in the 80s and 90s the world felt like its getting better every year. More peace, fewer borders, more opportunities, better technology. Everything was getting better every year and we took it for granted that this is…

I think many of us take it for granted. I wonder what the view on the ground was in the late 1930's and early 1940's. Or a more recent time. I think how mechanical engineers felt in silicon valley over the last 40 years as basically 'making and shipping" was all exported to china. I have some mechanical engineer friends whose life got smaller and smaller.

[deleted]

Re: A Programmer's Loss of Identity

#108

Post by vdqtp3 »

PhunkyPhil wrote: post #85
sho_hn wrote: post #56

My advice: Upgrade yourself from programmer to engineer, including the learning that involves. I now enjoy going between software and hardware/EE/mech, between writing code and CAD, between bits and metal working, between creating structures both virtual and physical, and bringing an engineering mindset to it all. There's still a lot of creative outlets out there, and a lot of community. Aim high and grow your identi…

I've been thinking exactly this. I'm a recent CS grad and have zero experience in anything physical or on the engineering side but I think I would enjoy it. I'm a bit intimidated by it, is there a path you'd recommend taking in learning?

3D printing is probably the easiest entry point in today's world. You can assemble already designed components into a structure and learn about how they work, tweak them for customization, design your own parts to produce, and "graduate" into designing custom printers and printer parts. The Voron and Annex communities have a ton of folks in this space designing everything from cosmetic accessories to novel mechanical components that bring meaningful improvements to functionality (Monolith, for example).

From there you can explore automation like pick n place machines, engraving, CNC plasma/routers, CNC subtractive machines (lathes/mills/etc). Or you can come back towards programming with PCB design and custom firmware.

If none of that sounds interesting, you can pick up an old project car from an MG to a Jeep XJ and everything in between.

The world is huge and getting your hands dirty is a really nice balance to time on the keyboard. The only downside is there's no ctrl+z or ^[u but sometimes that's where you learn the most.

Re: A Programmer's Loss of Identity

#109

Post by brandall10 »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #54
softwaredoug wrote: post #13

> Which is to say that the pleasure I get from programming is mostly about learning the underlying truths about computation and applying what I’ve learned. Always improving the craft. This, to me, is the practice of programming. I guess when you get to a certain age (I'm 45) I stop caring whether something like this has social value. I enjoy it anyways. Wanting to know how things work always brings me back. I don't c…

> when it was seen as low-status profession in the late 80s. I don't remember this at all . I became a professional programmer in 1987, but perhaps it was the fact that I went directly to Unix, did not pass go, did not collect $200 and worked entirely on systems programming that helped skip any of the "low-status" of people doing RDBMS/forms work ?

Low status is underselling it, but it certainly wasn't seen as an alternate path for those those considering medical/law/finance.

I started my CS degree in '94, and my junior year was... weird. Suddenly a quarter of the faces in the lab were not the types you would ever expect to see there.

Re: A Programmer's Loss of Identity

#110

Post by reilly3000 »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #39
pjmlp wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It kind of depends on where in the globe one is, many countries see programmers as a white collar job that happens to be better paid than a plain secretary, a mere transition phase into management, that is the success story for most families, the programmer turned boss. So those of us that fight against becoming managers, it was for love of programming and the related technical details, as it usually comes with a pay…

> So those of us that fight against becoming managers, it was for love of programming and the related technical details, as it usually comes with a payment and career ceiling. I think quite a lot of these programmers don't fight against becoming a manager, but it's rather that they don't have traits (character traits, demeanour, low on dark triad traits (it is known that the selection process and work reality for man…

Maybe they choose not to exude those traits by choice (when a leader slot opens up), and can use them when they are circumstantially relevant. I have gone full founder, and I’m not happy with who I was. It’s an IC’s life for me.

The only thing is, we’re all managers now. We’ve been given a fleet of robots to support a set of outcomes. We have to set expectations, monitor outputs, coach, intervene, step back, onboard new team members, train regularly, make sure they have the tools they need, etc and so on. Are those “soft skills” or just engineering? I’m curious if and how people are lacking in these areas when it’s just text.

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