Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

homolova.sk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 120 posts

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#101

Post by rmah »

light_hue_1 wrote: post #66
rmah wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your statement doesn't make sense to me, perhaps you could clarify it? Did you mean that 85% of the population didn't vote for the current leader of the executive branch? If so then perhaps "that 85% [...] did not vote for" might be more appropriate. Or were your referring to the electoral college used to elect the POTUS? For the first, 100% of citizens cannot vote for the federal government representatives (children…

It's not misleading. I have no idea why people are voting this down. It's just a simple fact. We have 3 parts of the federal government we can vote for: executive, senate, and house. Yet, the vast majority of people reading this have never cast a vote that mattered in any of those. I certainly have not. Most states are not competitive when it comes to electoral votes. It doesn't matter if 100% of MA or CA comes out.…

I see. So by "cannot vote for" you meant "did not vote for". Thanks for clearing it up.

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#104

Post by GeoAtreides »

Radle wrote: post #59

I am tiny bit angry reading this. Does the author believe he can just come into my country and by the mere fact of breathing has a right to vote in my countries election? This is madness if you aren't a citizen you don't get to vote..

>the mere fact of breathing

one could say it's the mere fact of taxation and labour that gives them their rights...

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#105

Post by maccard »

ahtihn wrote: post #62
deanc wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So a permanent resident who has lived in a country, for say, 10 years? You don't think they're committed at that point and should have a right to vote on the society they are contributing to?

Is there any country in Europe where you can't naturalize after 10 years? Maybe some micro state? My point is, if you're not willing to go through the naturalisation process when you're eligible, what's the problem?

I agree with your point - but to answer your question, none that take _more_ than 10 years but quite a few that take 10 years. Austria had particularly tough requirements - 10 years, language competency _and_ no dual citizenship

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#106

Post by maccard »

deanc wrote: post #11

This really resonates with me. I have lived in Finland for 16 years and struggled with work-life balance whilst trying to learn one of the most difficult languages in the world. Unless you pass the language exam you can't apply for citizenship - no matter how long you've been here for. And yet, the right-wing-ish coalition government is making hostile anti-immigration policies and increasing citizenship requirements…

I think you’re very unlikely to garner any sympathy here for living somewhere for 16 years without learning the language.

I also think it’s perfectly reasonable for a country to not allow someone who refuses to prioritise integration with the country to vote on loosening those restrictions. It seems the requirement is roughly equivalent to a B2 level.

I’m a bleeding heart leftie, pro migration, pro EU, and honestly I think visa renewals should come with language requirements. An initial visa sure, but after 2 years an a2 in the language should be achievable. There are definitely edge cases (do you require Spanish or Catalan in Catalonia), but if you can’t speak enough of the local Language after 2 years to be able to get around, you’re not really trying.

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#107

Post by deanc »

maccard wrote: post #106
deanc wrote: post #11

This really resonates with me. I have lived in Finland for 16 years and struggled with work-life balance whilst trying to learn one of the most difficult languages in the world. Unless you pass the language exam you can't apply for citizenship - no matter how long you've been here for. And yet, the right-wing-ish coalition government is making hostile anti-immigration policies and increasing citizenship requirements…

I think you’re very unlikely to garner any sympathy here for living somewhere for 16 years without learning the language. I also think it’s perfectly reasonable for a country to not allow someone who refuses to prioritise integration with the country to vote on loosening those restrictions. It seems the requirement is roughly equivalent to a B2 level. I’m a bleeding heart leftie, pro migration, pro EU, and honestly I…

I wrote a little about this here [1]. To summarise, the reality of language learning here is that unless you give up your work it's almost impossible to learn - your only opportunities to learn are evening classes which come at a cost of no social life and are completely impossible if you have kids.

It's easy for people to judge, but move here and try it yourself. It's completely different to e.g. France or Spain.

I also don't agree with one of the other commenters. Finnish is objectively more difficult for most people to learn and has its own origins - entirely different from most languages spoken in Europe. The materials are poorly developed due to the population size and lack of people teaching, and the grammar is absolutely insane.

[1] https://deanclatworthy.com/2026/02/11/integration-isnt-an-ev...

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#108

Post by cr1895 »

jeroenhd wrote: post #74
dariosalvi78 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but rules for citizenship are all different and are being made harder and harder because, well, that's what sells today. Also some countries (cough, Germany, cough) have incredibly stupid rules where you have to give up your own citizenship in order to get a new one.

I think it's perfectly normal to expect someone to give up their old citizenship when becoming citizen in a different country. When you become a citizen, that country is responsible for getting you out of international conflicts and arranging passports (which are essentially documents that say "you should let this person in because of the good relationship our two governments have"), and in turn you're expected to tu…

In NL the obligation to renounce is pretty arbitrary. There are a number of circumstances where it is allowed to have two nationalities, such as through marriage to a Dutch citizen.

It doesn’t make a lot of sense.

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#109

Post by maccard »

deanc wrote: post #107
maccard wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re very unlikely to garner any sympathy here for living somewhere for 16 years without learning the language. I also think it’s perfectly reasonable for a country to not allow someone who refuses to prioritise integration with the country to vote on loosening those restrictions. It seems the requirement is roughly equivalent to a B2 level. I’m a bleeding heart leftie, pro migration, pro EU, and honestly I…

I wrote a little about this here [1]. To summarise, the reality of language learning here is that unless you give up your work it's almost impossible to learn - your only opportunities to learn are evening classes which come at a cost of no social life and are completely impossible if you have kids. It's easy for people to judge, but move here and try it yourself. It's completely different to e.g. France or Spain. I…

I think I was pretty polite about but I just think you’re looking for excuses. There’s a wild wild difference between being fluent and being able to hold a conversation and go about your day. Nobody is quitting job to learn how to read a menu, or to ask where the batteries are in the supermarket.

> your only opportunities to learn are evening classes which come at a cost of no social life and are completely impossible if you have kids.

One 60 minute class a week is not “no social life”. Having kids is a fair point but at the same time, you’re making time for other things (e.g. blogging) - learning the language of the country you live in should be one of those things. Again, we’re not talking fluency.

I think there’s some good points in your blog post, and your title is catchy - integration isn’t an evening class but the evening class is a prerequisite for integration. If you don’t have one time for one class a week as a prerequisite you don’t have time for any other activities you’d consider “integration” instead

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#110

Post by Hamuko »

deanc wrote: post #107
maccard wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re very unlikely to garner any sympathy here for living somewhere for 16 years without learning the language. I also think it’s perfectly reasonable for a country to not allow someone who refuses to prioritise integration with the country to vote on loosening those restrictions. It seems the requirement is roughly equivalent to a B2 level. I’m a bleeding heart leftie, pro migration, pro EU, and honestly I…

I wrote a little about this here [1]. To summarise, the reality of language learning here is that unless you give up your work it's almost impossible to learn - your only opportunities to learn are evening classes which come at a cost of no social life and are completely impossible if you have kids. It's easy for people to judge, but move here and try it yourself. It's completely different to e.g. France or Spain. I…

Asking your host country to provide you a four-day working week with a fully funded fifth day just for language study is nuts, especially for a highly-paid engineer.

>This would not be charity. It would be an investment.

Why are you unwilling to make that investment? Is your money situation so tight that you can't work a reduced week without the state paying for it?

Post reply on HN