Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US businesses and consumers pay 90% of tariff costs, New York Fed says

ft.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 339 posts

Re: US businesses and consumers pay 90% of tariff costs, New York Fed says

#101

Post by throwup238 »

mathgradthrow wrote: post #63
SunshineTheCat wrote: post #13

Everyone has been getting sold that these tariffs are on "China" or fill-in-the-blank on what country we're "getting" with them. The reality is that's a fundamental misunderstanding of what a tariff is. There is a reason you will find tariffs drop off after the great depression. They make everything more expensive for businesses and in turn, the end consumer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_tariffs_in_the_Un…

A tariff can only cost as much to the consumer as an embargo.

So practically infinite downside?

Re: US businesses and consumers pay 90% of tariff costs, New York Fed says

#102

Post by kelseyfrog »

adocomplete wrote: post #73
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #57

I think blanket tariffs are dumb don't get me wrong. But tariffs have been used in the car industry for decades. If you got rid of them completely within 5 years the American car companies would be closing plants. The whole reason Japanese auto manufacturers build plants in the US was to avoid tariffs. Shipping costs are actually incredibly minimal for a vehicle. So in my opinion, we've seen where they can work. If y…

Don't American cars have some of the lowest levels of reliability? I'm not super educated on all the happenings in the car industry globally, but I've seen a few videos of Chinese EVs that put anything Ford, GM or other US brands have put out to absolute shame.

The purpose of the US auto industry is primarily a jobs program and secondarily a way to ensure the existence of supply chains for national security. The fact that it produces cars is tertiary at best and explains the quality of vehicles it produces.

Re: US businesses and consumers pay 90% of tariff costs, New York Fed says

#103

Post by temp8830 »

SunshineTheCat wrote: post #60
ranger_danger wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the misunderstanding is in a combination of wording + practical application. Tariffs in the legal sense are technically paid by the importer who sells a product. It's their responsibility to pay it... always. The importer could technically eat that cost, and the consumer wouldn't see a difference on their price tag. But what happens in practice, the vast majority of the time, is the importer passes that extra…

I know of a 10-12 employee business in my town who custom-designs kids products that are manufactured in China because they want to keep their products affordable for parents. Getting them manufactured in the US (even though they wanted to) was way too expensive and would require them to charge way above retail just to stay open. Once the tariffs dropped, their cost of goods more than doubled. Their business in that…

OK, so the custom-designed kids product becomes a luxury item and the business has to charge above retail. The kids learn that adults time is too valuable to be spent on manufacturing trinkets that get thrown away. They take better care of the few toys they do own. There is less plastic crap in landfills. Seems like a win all around?

Re: US businesses and consumers pay 90% of tariff costs, New York Fed says

#104

Post by macintux »

lreeves wrote: post #92
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #57

I think blanket tariffs are dumb don't get me wrong. But tariffs have been used in the car industry for decades. If you got rid of them completely within 5 years the American car companies would be closing plants. The whole reason Japanese auto manufacturers build plants in the US was to avoid tariffs. Shipping costs are actually incredibly minimal for a vehicle. So in my opinion, we've seen where they can work. If y…

I mean no shit though? People calmly said this in Trump's first term where he (unsuccessfully) first tried to go tariff crazy. What does it add though? Nobody is freaking out saying "all tariffs are bad", they're saying "blanket tariffs for no/the stupidest reasons possible are bad".

And "tariffs that are utterly unpredictable and can change after barely-concealed bribery" are unhelpful to plan a business around.

Re: US businesses and consumers pay 90% of tariff costs, New York Fed says

#105

Post by twoodfin »

engineer_22 wrote: post #71
SunshineTheCat wrote: post #13

Everyone has been getting sold that these tariffs are on "China" or fill-in-the-blank on what country we're "getting" with them. The reality is that's a fundamental misunderstanding of what a tariff is. There is a reason you will find tariffs drop off after the great depression. They make everything more expensive for businesses and in turn, the end consumer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_tariffs_in_the_Un…

Of course they increase the price of goods - that's the whole point!!! > is like fighting your neighbor who's dog keeps peeing in your yard by lighting your own couch on fire. it's more like buying your own dog to pee in your yard, and keep out the neighbor's What is missing from the convo is where the tarriffs go - they go to fund the federal gov't, which spends on Goods and Services for the American People (you hop…

Generally, protective trade policies weaken rather than strengthen competitiveness in industrialized nations.

I guess you could argue that we’re so far behind in some sector like manufacturing that we need developing-nation-like trade barriers to nurture embryonic growth, but a look at real numbers would, I think, demonstrate that’s rubbish.

Re: US businesses and consumers pay 90% of tariff costs, New York Fed says

#106

Post by hammock »

mindslight wrote: post #54
fc417fc802 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Subsidies are also expensive for the tax payer. Warping the market costs money. (No comment on whether it's being warped in the "right" way right now.)

Having the world reserve currency is an independent source of revenue for the US Government, as it allows for an amount of monetary inflation without corresponding price inflation. Through a combination of Federal Reserve policy and the political martingale of "balanced budgets", most of this revenue has been simply given away to asset holders in the form of low-interest loans. This money could/should instead be spen…

Wish this comment was higher up. A balanced, reasonable, non-partisan take

Re: US businesses and consumers pay 90% of tariff costs, New York Fed says

#107

Post by triceratops »

stevenjgarner wrote: post #85
CamperBob2 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the tariffs are just a grift designed to force CEOs to pay tribute to Trump. If the tariffs were "an attempt to get domestic US industries to produce items now being imported," they wouldn't be levied on manufacturing inputs .

I agree the administration tariffs "wouldn't be levied on manufacturing inputs" if they really wanted to help domestic industries. I'm not saying they're doing the right thing, I'm just saying that most Americans I talk to understand the INTENTION is ancient protectionist logic, but the Fed report is evidence that this logic is currently failing to produce the administration's intended "manufacturing miracle". It is…

> I'm just saying that most Americans I talk to understand the INTENTION is ancient protectionist logic,

Then their understanding is incorrect because that isn't even the INTENTION.

Re: US businesses and consumers pay 90% of tariff costs, New York Fed says

#108

Post by thisisit »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #57

I think blanket tariffs are dumb don't get me wrong. But tariffs have been used in the car industry for decades. If you got rid of them completely within 5 years the American car companies would be closing plants. The whole reason Japanese auto manufacturers build plants in the US was to avoid tariffs. Shipping costs are actually incredibly minimal for a vehicle. So in my opinion, we've seen where they can work. If y…

I am confused by your logic.

You start off with

> I think blanket tariffs are dumb don't get me wrong.

Then add a conjunction and use a single example to just make a point opposite to what you started with.

> So in my opinion, we've seen where they can work.

I can't help but think that you don't believe blanket tariffs are dumb because it worked for one industry and helps American jobs. Just start with that please.

Re: US businesses and consumers pay 90% of tariff costs, New York Fed says

#109

Post by ewjt »

culi wrote: post #72
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #57

I think blanket tariffs are dumb don't get me wrong. But tariffs have been used in the car industry for decades. If you got rid of them completely within 5 years the American car companies would be closing plants. The whole reason Japanese auto manufacturers build plants in the US was to avoid tariffs. Shipping costs are actually incredibly minimal for a vehicle. So in my opinion, we've seen where they can work. If y…

What if, instead of all of us paying in order to have a car industry, we take that tax money and pay to an ecological restoration industry or functioning healthcare industry or whatever. Have you seen the map of superfund sites? Statistically speaking, you are almost certainly living within 10 miles of a superfund https://epa.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=... There is a LOT of other work we could be…

Transportation is like farming and yielding ownership of critical industries gives foreign adversaries too much leverage.

I’m with you though. If humans could just get along we could build an amazing world.

Re: US businesses and consumers pay 90% of tariff costs, New York Fed says

#110

Post by SoftTalker »

taeric wrote: post #40
SunshineTheCat wrote: post #13

Everyone has been getting sold that these tariffs are on "China" or fill-in-the-blank on what country we're "getting" with them. The reality is that's a fundamental misunderstanding of what a tariff is. There is a reason you will find tariffs drop off after the great depression. They make everything more expensive for businesses and in turn, the end consumer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_tariffs_in_the_Un…

It is baffling to me, as it is no different than thinking that "sugar taxes" are taxes that soda companies pay. There is even a straight forward analysis that shows it does impact the soda companies rather heavily. But it is objectively paid by the consumers. And nobody is really confused by that.

Pretty much every tax is ultimately paid by the consumer, because all the suppliers have to make a profit or they won't stay in business. The point of an import tariff isn't to make anything cheaper, it's to level the market in the presence of a foreign supplier who has much lower costs (e.g. sweatshop labor, state-supported industry, etc.) that are not available to domestic suppliers.
Post reply on HN