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Why is Singapore no longer "cool"?

marginalrevolution.com

101–110 of 298 posts

Re: Why is Singapore no longer "cool"?

#101

I don't think Singapore was ever cool. In fact I'd say up until a few years ago most Americans didn't even know Singapore existed. Why would they? Now maybe that's changed with Crazy Rich Asians, Tiktok, and the "Senator, I'm Singaporean" meme. For SEA, Thailand was always the cool kid on the block.

hmm. I would say for most Americans it was Japan. Sushi did numbers.

Thailand was for sex tourism.

Singapore was cool to government/political types because Lee Kuan Yew really did pull off a miracle.

Re: Why is Singapore no longer "cool"?

#102

I think Singapore's immigration policy is still interesting and relevant to western countries, but it's true it's also kind of similar to the UAE. Essentially it's (relatively) easy to get work visas for areas where there's a genuine shortage but difficult to get permanent residency and almost impossible to get citizenship. That's still a very different policy to what most western countries have right now. The UAE ha…

This. My mental image of Singapore was always boring guys in suits working for soulless banks. At least Wall Street bankers go wild on drugs and know how to party. Singapore bankers are men who, when feeling adventurous, have a sip of wine here and there and women who push dogs in strollers.

Having been to Singapore many times, I've realized my mental image was pretty accurate. There's no real art scene and even mentioning anything that slightly goes against the grain of Singapore's tight, tidy, and strict regimens doesn't just not appeal to the people, it'll actively infuriate them. A hint of rebellious nature defines cool. Singapore doesn't have a single drop of that within its entire national borders.

It's like North Korea with money and good PR. At least a lot of North Koreans sneak in a little rebellion when they know nobody is watching, even if it's minor stuff like watching illegal foreign TV shows. Singapore is the type of place where your neighbors would report you if such a thing became illegal, instead of saying "Hey bro, let me borrow those DVDs after you're done." It's a great place to make money. Then once you have it, leave to live a little.

The country is so against cool it even has a designated free speech corner that doesn't allow free speech and had its usage hours limited from 7 AM to 7 PM and limits speech to 4 languages only: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speakers%27_Corner,_Singapore

Re: Why is Singapore no longer "cool"?

#103

There's an extremely low fertility rate paired with a rapidly aging population. When I visited there were endless advertisements for geriatric type care / end-of-life type planning / etc, and a notably older population working quite low wage jobs in a place where everything was crazy expensive, especially relative to its northern neighbor. It felt depressing. It seems like one of those places that is probably quite n…

I have to push back on this because you’re basically saying that old people visibly existing killed your vibe, and that jaywalking made you think less of the place.

Heck, in a country with top-tier public housing (17th most affordable housing in the world) and healthcare (2nd best outcomes in the world, 12th highest life expectancy), how are you even sure those older people working jobs are “low paid?”

Maybe you’re seeing older people working because they live healthier for longer in Singapore?

If you work at McDonald’s in Mississippi you are much more low wage than working at McDonald’s in Denmark, especially considering guaranteed paid time off, healthcare, and other quality of life factors. You literally live 10 years longer on average in Denmark (or Singapore) compared to Mississippi. But those two people wear the same McDonald’s uniform.

How can you tell someone is making a “low wage” just by looking at the job they’re doing?

Re: Why is Singapore no longer "cool"?

#104

What a strange premise. Aside from the brief period of infamy around the Michael Fay case (mid-90s, a teenager caned for acts of petty vandalism), when were Americans ever paying attention to Singapore? The author keeps referring to "right-wing" this and that, so presumably he is buried too deep in some weird political subculture to realize that his question makes little sense to the rest of us.

Occasionally, you can read a comment and realize you can skip evaluating it and instead enjoy the sultry writing of the NYT itself.

Re: Why is Singapore no longer "cool"?

#105

There's an extremely low fertility rate paired with a rapidly aging population. When I visited there were endless advertisements for geriatric type care / end-of-life type planning / etc, and a notably older population working quite low wage jobs in a place where everything was crazy expensive, especially relative to its northern neighbor. It felt depressing. It seems like one of those places that is probably quite n…

This is actually the whole developed world at the moment. Every place is a retirement community now.

No it isnt. What are you talking about!?!?!

Re: Why is Singapore no longer "cool"?

#107
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually the whole developed world at the moment. Every place is a retirement community now.

Even though it feels depressing right now, I think the post-boomer world is going to be an amazing place.

There's an interesting aspect of fertility rate that most don't know. They also determine the exact age ratios within a society! Imagine a population has a global fertility rate of 1 (and in Singapore it's even lower, though not globally - yet). That means each successive generation is half as large as the one prior. And we can approximate the age of fertility as between 20 and 40. So now let's start with 1 newborn and we can work backwards from there.

---

1 new born ->

2 20-40 year olds ->

4 40-60 year olds ->

8 60-80 year olds ->

16? 80-100 year olds

---

Just ignoring the 80-100 year olds, we end up in a scenario where you have 6 people in the working age for every 8 people of retirement age. And if life expectancy inches up, then it may be closer to 6 working age people for every 16+ retirees.

You can see this visibly playing out in Singapore right now with their population pyramid [1]. They had a nice solid pyramid in the past, so you end up with a very healthy economy and society - lots of young people for relatively fewer older people. But as fertility rates declined you can see it start to flip, so right now it looks a bit like a vase, and in the future it will be an upside down pyramid.

So basically as the old folks move on, they are replaced by even more old folks. And this never really stops until we return to being societies that are having enough children to sustain ourselves.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Singapore#/med...

Re: Why is Singapore no longer "cool"?

#109
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually the whole developed world at the moment. Every place is a retirement community now.

Even though it feels depressing right now, I think the post-boomer world is going to be an amazing place.

The next generation of the ownership class they raised will gleefully usher in the fascism some of their cohorts fought physically and ideologically against, and there isn't the threat of global communism to keep them in check anymore.

I wish I had your optimism.

Re: Why is Singapore no longer "cool"?

#110
post #93

I think Singapore's immigration policy is still interesting and relevant to western countries, but it's true it's also kind of similar to the UAE. Essentially it's (relatively) easy to get work visas for areas where there's a genuine shortage but difficult to get permanent residency and almost impossible to get citizenship. That's still a very different policy to what most western countries have right now. The UAE ha…

Singapore has also somehow maintained a supermajority Chinese population consistently since the 1970s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Singapore (77% in 1970, 74.3% in 2020). That is even though the predominantly Muslim Malay population has had much higher total fertility than the Chinese population since 1980: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Total-Fertility-Rate-Per... . It seems like Singapore use…

> Singapore has also somehow maintained a supermajority Chinese population

It’s not really a secret that Singapore uses ethnicity based quotas when granting PR and citizenship to maintain their demographic composition.

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