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I am happier writing code by hand

abhinavomprakash.com

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Re: I am happier writing code by hand

#101

Post by chasd00 »

kelipso wrote: post #18
eddythompson80 wrote: post #12

It really depends on the project for me. For example,I never enjoyed writing react code (or really any UI), just the outcome of my idea materializing in a usable interface. There is nothing creative or fun for me in almost any UX framework. It’s just a ton of predictable typing (now we need a fricking box. And another box. And another stupid box…) I’m more than happy outsourcing that. However, my thoughts are too ran…

Same with gui. I’m making a web gui that’s very specific for a project that I’m working on. My team finds it very useful but I would never make that thing without AI assistance, combination of I don’t find it interesting or fun, would take too long, I am not familiar with web gui stuff.

Claude code makes react + tailwindcss + whatever component library actually bearable for me. I can just “make a navbar on the left hand side of the screen like vscode has” and it mostly does it, a few tweaks and I have what I want. I waste so much time on that stuff doing it by hand it drives me crazy.

Also “pull records from table X and display them in a data grid. Include a “New” button and associated functionality respecting column constraints in the database. Also add an edit and delete button for each row in the table”. God, it’s really nice to have an LLM get that 85% of the way done in maybe 2 min.

Re: I am happier writing code by hand

#102

Post by jmull »

> The process of writing code helps internalize the context and is easier for my brain to think deeply about it.

True, and you really do need to internalize the context to be a good software developer.

However, just because coding is how you're used to internalizing context doesn't mean it's the only good way to do it.

(I've always had a problem with people jumping into coding when they don't really understand what they are doing. I don't expect LLMs to change that, but the pernicious part of the old way is that the code -- much of it developed in ignorance -- became too entrenched/expensive to change in significant ways. Perhaps that part will change? Hopefully, anyway.)

Re: I am happier writing code by hand

#103

Post by sho_hn »

It doesn't have to be either-or in my experience.

I very much enjoy the actively of writing code. For me, programming is pure stress relief. I love the focus and the feeling flow, I love figuring out an elegant solution, I love tastefully structuring things based on my experience of what concerns matter, etc.

Despite the AI tools I still do that: I put my effort into the areas of the code that count, or that offer intellectually stimulating challenge, or where I want to make sure to explore manually think my way into the problem space and try out different API or structure ideas.

In parallel to that I keep my background queue of AI agents fed with more menial or less interesting tasks. I take the things I learn in my mental "main thread" into the specs I write for the agents. And when I need to take a break on my mental "main thread" I review their results.

IMHO this is the way to go for us experienced developers who enjoy writing code. Don't stop doing that, there's still a lot of value in it. Write code consciously and actively, participate in the creation. But learn to utilize and keep busy agents in parallel or when you're off-keyboard. Delegate, basically. There's quite a lot of things they can do already that you really don't need to do because the outcome is completely predictable. I feel that it's possible to actually increase the hours/day focussing on stimulating problems that way.

The "you're just mindlessly prompting all day" or "the fun is gone" are choices you don't need to be making.

Re: I am happier writing code by hand

#104

Post by softwaredoug »

skydhash wrote: post #72
softwaredoug wrote: post #31

Even if Claude writes 100% code, I think there will be a bifurcation between people who are finicky about 10 lines of code. And those finicky about high level product experiences. I think the 10 lines of code people worry their jobs now become obsolete. In cases where the code required googling how to do X with Y technology, that's true. That's just going to be trivially solvable. And it will cause us to not need as…

> I think there will be a bifurcation between people who are finicky about 10 lines of code. And those finicky about high level product experiences. No ones care about a random 10 lines of code. And the focus of AI hypers on LoC is disturbing. Either the code is correct and good (allows for change later down the line) or it isn't. > We may weirdly be in a case where it's possible to single-shot a slack clone, but tak…

Nobody care until there’s an incident or security vulnerability, something doesn’t work based on some PMs assumptions of how it should work.

The question to me becomes whether the PM -> engineering handoff outdated? Should they be the same person? Does it collapse to one skillet for this work?

Re: I am happier writing code by hand

#105

Post by tux1968 »

agentultra wrote: post #81
woeirua wrote: post #5

This is no different then carpentry. Yes, all furniture can now be built by machines. Some people still choose to build it by hand. Does that make them less productive? Yes. Will they ever carve furniture by hand for a business? Probably not. Can they still enjoy the act of working with the wood? Yes. If you want to code by hand, then do it! No one's stopping you. But we shouldn't pretend that you will be able to do…

I’ve heard this metaphor before and I don’t think it works well. For one, a power tool like a bandsaw is a centaur technology. I, the human, am the top half of the centaur. The tool drives around doing what I tell it to do and helping me to do the task faster (or at all in some cases). A GenAI tool is a reverse-centaur technology. The algorithm does almost all of the work. I’m the bottom half of the centaur helping t…

It seems like you're doing a lot of work to miss the actual point. Focusing on the minutiae of the analogy is a distraction from the over arching and obvious point. It has nothing to do with how you feel, it has to do with how you will compete in a world with others who feel differently.

There were carpenters who refused to use power tools, some still do. They are probably happy -- and that's great, all the power to them. But they're statistically irrelevant, just as artisanal hand-crafted computer coding will be. There was a time when coders rejected high level languages, because the only way they felt good about their code is if they handcrafted the binary codes, and keyed them directly into the computer without an assembler. Times change.

Re: I am happier writing code by hand

#106

Post by deaux »

Of course. Almost everyone who knows how to ride a horse, is happier riding a horse than driving a car too. Or hell, in decent weather even a bike.

In fact, it's even worse - driving a car is one of the least happy modes of getting around there is. And sure, maybe you really enjoy driving one. You're a rare breed when it comes down to it.

Yet it's responsible by far for the most people-distance transported every day.

Re: I am happier writing code by hand

#107

Post by itissid »

woeirua wrote: post #5

This is no different then carpentry. Yes, all furniture can now be built by machines. Some people still choose to build it by hand. Does that make them less productive? Yes. Will they ever carve furniture by hand for a business? Probably not. Can they still enjoy the act of working with the wood? Yes. If you want to code by hand, then do it! No one's stopping you. But we shouldn't pretend that you will be able to do…

Coding can be a joy and art like. I — speaking for myself — do feel incredibly lonely when doing it alone for long stretches. Its closer to doing graduate mathematics, especially on software that fewer and fewer know how to do well. It is also impossible to find people who would pay for _only_ beautiful code.

Re: I am happier writing code by hand

#109

Post by CraftingLinks »

I hate typing strings of syntax. So boring. Never saw the appeal. I do like tinkering with ideas, concepts, structure... just not the mechanical interaction part. Im not tbe best typist...then again, its the same with playing factorio. I love the concept of building structures, but fighting the UI to communicate my ideas is such a drag...

Re: I am happier writing code by hand

#110

Post by Ronsenshi »

layer8 wrote: post #47
rf15 wrote: post #9

This is pointing out one factor of vibecoding that is talked about too little: that it feels good, and that this feeling often clouds people's judgment on what is actually achieved (i.e. you lost control of the code and are running more and more frictionless on hopes and dreams)

It feels good to some people. Personally I have difficulty relating to that, it’s antithetical to important parts of what I value about software development. Feeling good for me comes from deeply understanding the problem and the code, and knowing how they do match up.

I agree with you. I had done a bit of vibe coding over the weekend. Not once did it feel good. Most of the time it produced things which are close to what I needed, but not quite hitting the mark. Partially probably because I'm not explaining myself in sufficient detail to AI, but the way I work is not working very well with super detailed spec ahead of development. I used to always develop understanding of the project while working on it.

I feel more lost and unsure instead of good - because I didn't write the code, so I don't have its internal structure in my head and since I didn't write it there's nothing to be proud of.

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