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The Tesla Approach to Distributing and Servicing Cars

teslamotors.com

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Re: The Tesla Approach to Distributing and Servicing Cars

#101

Post by michaelt »

SeanLuke wrote: post #80
sbierwagen wrote: post #23

In case your eye skipped over the “for free” part, I would like to emphasize that again – owning a Supercharger enabled Model S really does mean free long distance travel forever on our high speed charging network. I really wish they'd stop saying this. They're essentially committing to building a nationwide electric car charging infrastructure for $nodollars, and never charging customers to use it, ever. Which means…

Probably neither A nor B. The total electricity cost over the lifetime of a Tesla Model S is surprisingly small, so small that it can effectively rolled into the price of the vehicle itself. In fact this is one of the problems with current electric vehicles: the battery alone may cost more than all the electricity you'd use to charge it over its lifetime. Additionally they can certainly recoup costs on charging non-T…

Life expectancy of a car 150,000 to 300,000 miles [1] Cost of electricity: 6 to 12 cents per kWh [2] Performance of Model S: 300 miles in 85 kWh [3] Cost of Model S: $57,400 to $77,400 [3]

Electricity cost: $2,550 to $10,200 Percentage of $57,400 vehicle cost: 4.44% to 17.77%

There's also a supercharger 'activation fee' for the models that don't have the highest end battery [4] which presumably rolls in some of that cost. So I agree this is probably economically feasible.

Of course, it all depends on what their profit margins are like when they get to serious production, what the charging efficiency is like, how much use Tesla's charge stations get, and how good a deal they can get on their electricity.

[1] http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12040753/ns/business-consumer_ne... [2] http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/cost.html [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S [4] http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/update-supercharging...

Re: The Tesla Approach to Distributing and Servicing Cars

#102

Post by ams6110 »

dsk2012 wrote: post #9
ck2 wrote: post #2

Weren't cars advertised and sold in malls for years? This is just returning to that tradition. You can clearly see the dealership in the mall in the Blues Brothers for example (" The new Oldsmobiles are in early this year! ")

Car manufacturers can certainly setup mall stores to advertise their cars, but the customer will still need to buy through a dealer.

Likewise a dealer could set up a showroom in a mall.

Re: The Tesla Approach to Distributing and Servicing Cars

#103

Post by 001sky »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #99
001sky wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

swappable batteries -- What is the weight, though? @450 pounds?[1] ___________ [1] edit: source of estimate - Honda s2000 with A123 li-ion was discussed in thread below, estimated battery pack weight was approx 460-500lbs. Car had more hp, though. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4536452

Batteries are heavy no matter how you slice 'em. They will always (AFAIK) offer terrible joule/kg performance compared to a tank of gasoline. I don't think replaceable modular batteries would be that much heavier than whatever's being done now. But yes, there would be some additional overhead, given that even the smallest cars would probably take more than one battery module.

The UPS and the Airplane luggage guys though will only 30 kilos (65lbs), though because of insurance/workplace comp. They wont let them lug more. at 200 kilos (440lba) you are talking splitting the pack up into 6 or 7 parts (and still be laboriously removed) or having a somewhat major operation on your car (ie, you need an Engine Hoist for the thing in one part) to change the battery. Then a forklift or something to put them on a "rack". Seems logistically like a nightmare.

That being said, the actual cells themselves are only a couple of pounds each. Would be interesting if this could be engineered to just take out something like the 100 micro-cells (at 4 lbs each), and toss em in a shopping cart. Maybe have a robot then sort and charge them in a special room full of charging racks. (like automated library book retrieval). But they would need to be built up in a certain way, and put in a housing, etc to go back in the car OK.

Re: The Tesla Approach to Distributing and Servicing Cars

#104

Post by bathat »

protomyth wrote: post #74
sbierwagen wrote: post #23

In case your eye skipped over the “for free” part, I would like to emphasize that again – owning a Supercharger enabled Model S really does mean free long distance travel forever on our high speed charging network. I really wish they'd stop saying this. They're essentially committing to building a nationwide electric car charging infrastructure for $nodollars, and never charging customers to use it, ever. Which means…

I will guarantee it will not be free once electric cars get a bit more popular and legislators need money for roads. These charging stations provide a convenient venue for taxes. I would also imagine some bill will show up asking electric companies to tax home charging stations separately. Given the tax implications, I would also bet the 110v plug-ins will be made illegal for electric cars for "safety" reason ("safet…

>Given the tax implications, I would also bet the 110v plug-ins will be made illegal for electric cars for "safety" reason ("safety of a state's road tax revenue").

Meh, I don't think they'll need to. Somewhere on the Tesla website there is a cute little calculator that will tell you how long it takes to fully charge the Model S with the various charging adapters. As I recall, the 110V / 12A outlet takes something like 4 or 5 days. That's fast enough that most people could probably keep their drive-to-work car at a mid-range SoC by charging all night and while at work. But that doesn't leave any room to really use the car for any errands. I have a feeling that very few owners would consider that a viable option for long-term ownership.

Re: The Tesla Approach to Distributing and Servicing Cars

#106

Post by sliverstorm »

forgottenpaswrd wrote: post #71
sbierwagen wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's tapdancing on the line between "creative wording" and "outright deception". They frontload the FREE CHARGING FOREVER part, then lightly skip over the fact that a Model S owner is still going to be spending a whole lot of money on power. (Gasoline is going to get more expensive. So is electricity! Until we figure out how to paint solar cells on flat surfaces, energy will never again be as cheap as it is right now…

"Until we figure out how to paint solar cells on flat surfaces, energy will never again be as cheap as it is right now." Oh, really? What about natural gas, hydrated methane and the most important of all, nuclear fusion energy? The universe is filled with billions of billions of billions of stars, it is not that fusion energy does not work, we only have to control it and we will.

We aren't going to see anything nuclear in the near future, sadly. The populace is just too afraid.

It doesn't matter that burning coal rains down radiation in the form of C-14- most people don't know that, and remain more afraid of anything with "nuclear" in the name.

Re: The Tesla Approach to Distributing and Servicing Cars

#107

Post by salimmadjd »

wmf wrote: post #42
salimmadjd wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Althiugh agree with the visionary status of Musk. But, your comment speaks to my point directly regarding the differing customer acquisition models. Apple's growth comes from entering an emerging market. Very different than the car industry. The emerging market of the car industry started with another visionary, Henry Ford.

Ah yes. "If smartphones turn out to be the future, people will probably just buy them from existing phone brands that they trust, like Nokia or Motorola." — a lot of people in 2007

Again what I said about different customer acquisition models. 1 - Smart phones have 2-4 years life at about $200 or so price point. They are not $60,000 cars that force buyers to buy a $600/year service contract from Tesla.

2 - Apple had the entire MP3 market with their ipods not to mention an army of long-time fanboys. Translate to a strong consumer brand loyalty. Tesla doesn't have any of these.

Re: The Tesla Approach to Distributing and Servicing Cars

#108

Post by capex »

lumberjack wrote: post #91
uladzislau wrote: post #11

The whole approach seems very much alike to Apple Retail stores strategy. High foot traffic locations, product specialists working not on commission, a lot of service centres - Tesla "Genius" bars. Applying proven working strategy in a different industry is a very smart move from Tesla. I see no reason why it wouldn't work.

>I see no reason why it wouldn't work. The highest end Apple products are still affordable by most people. Sure it might be an expensive investment but definitely affordable. So with great marketing they managed to get not only the previous Apple fans but also managed to convince most people that the markup for an Apple iSomething is worth it. I don't know if the same thing is feasible for Tesla cars which are defini…

If you start looking at cars from the affordance point of view, all luxury cars would lose a huge sales percentage. Getting a brand out there in competition with the likes of BMW and Mercedes is no easy task, and these retail outlets would help people make up their minds about where they want to spend their life savings.

Re: The Tesla Approach to Distributing and Servicing Cars

#109

Post by salimmadjd »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #72
salimmadjd wrote: post #26

I admire Musk and tesla. However, I see two paths for them and none are good. A - fully-electric cars are still too early and will get crushed by hybrids or more efficient diesel/fossil fuel cars. Tesla becomes irrelevent. B - fully-electric is all the rage, and every brand will have one. Tesla will become the victims of their own success. I'm going to assume many of you are going to disagree with me. Mainly because…

I'm going to assume many of you are going to disagree with me. Mainly because we come from a world with a much different customer acquisition models. I don't disagree with path A, but the fact is, path B (and Musk's prediction that half of all cars sold will be full electric by 2032) can't possibly happen with our current power distribution system in place. The only conceivable way that electric cars are going to tak…

swappable battery is important for those who need to drive beyond the battery range or don't have a good option to easily charge their cars overnight. This could be for people who live in big cities like San Francisco (although you can imaging a plug every parking spot 20 years from now) or for people who maybe going on a road trip. Which would make you wonder if people would not have two cars. One for daily commute the other for extended activity that might be fueled by some form of biodiesel. Hydrogen might also be another good solution at some point. This is something I proposed a long ago as part of my high school science fair. Basically using electricity for electrolysis of water to get hydrogen. You can the use the hydrogen as fuel cell or in combustion form for these long-range road trips instead of swapping batteries.
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