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Autonomous cars, drones cheerfully obey prompt injection by road sign

theregister.com

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Re: Autonomous cars, drones cheerfully obey prompt injection by road sign

#101

Post by mitchitized »

XorNot wrote: post #25
digiown wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4-way stops are terrible in general. They train people to think "I stopped, now I can go", which is dangerous when someone confuses a normal stop for a 4-way stop. It also wastes a good bit of energy.

4 ways stops should be roundabouts, but the US is allergic to them for some reason.

The only places where a 4-way stop has room to make a roundabout are places where there is not enough traffic for it to matter either way.

The biggest obstacle is that there are just too many 4-way stops in urban areas where there is no space left to make a roundabout, you would have to tear down buildings. I don't think that is a valid argument in that scenario.

Re: Autonomous cars, drones cheerfully obey prompt injection by road sign

#102

Post by reactordev »

cucumber3732842 wrote: post #9
pixl97 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Screwing with a stop sign because you don't like it is a great way to end up on the wrong end of a huge civil liability lawsuit

Put down the pearls. It's not me personally doing it. They never fixed any of them. I don't think the DPW cares. These intersection just turned back into the 2-way stops they had been for decades prior. Compliance probably technically went up since you no longer have the bulk of the traffic rolling it.

This. Rural America really doesn’t care about your stop sign or your Karen rules. If it’s been that way for 20+ years, “That’s the way it’s always been” to them.

Getting people to stop burning their trash is still a fight.

Re: Autonomous cars, drones cheerfully obey prompt injection by road sign

#103

Post by onionisafruit »

Ekaros wrote: post #88
XorNot wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4 ways stops should be roundabouts, but the US is allergic to them for some reason.

It just sounds insane concept. Why stop signs, when you could have equal intersection. Slow enough to observe traffic from right. If none passthrough. Stop signs should be special. Reserved only to those places where there simply is not enough visibility or time to observe.

The good ol four-way yield

Re: Autonomous cars, drones cheerfully obey prompt injection by road sign

#104

Post by reactordev »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #47
c22 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird, I was taught that I can only go after yielding to the right.

That isn’t the rule either, I guess parent made their point. The first person who stops goes next, right away only matters if their is ambiguity in who stopped first.

This is not correct. There are clear instructions on how a 4-way stop should operate and its yielding to the right, if opposite cars are both moving forward, both can go, otherwise the car who has initiative has the right of way. Every driver must come to a complete stop.

This is true in every state.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/rightofwayrules....

Re: Autonomous cars, drones cheerfully obey prompt injection by road sign

#106

Post by smallerfish »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #68
masfuerte wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So use a mini roundabout. They are common in the UK. It's just a painted circle with a slight hump, in the middle of a four-way junction. Vehicles can drive over it (and larger ones have to) but it indicates to everyone that they have to give way to traffic from the right and don't have to stop otherwise. They typically aren't big enough for multiple vehicles to be turning a corner at the same time. They fit anywhere…

It won’t work for a four way stop with lots of traffic, it will just make things worse actually.

What is the traffic flow rate in an intersection with a 4 way stop? For single lane, since only one vehicle can be in the intersection at once, and probably takes _at least_ 5 seconds to start from stopped and cross the intersection, I'm guessing in the 10-12 region per minute best case, so maybe 600 an hour?

Now if you convert it to a mini roundabout, you can have at least two vehicles in the intersection at all times. I fail to see how it wouldn't be an improvement.

Re: Autonomous cars, drones cheerfully obey prompt injection by road sign

#107

Post by bariumbitmap »

randycupertino wrote: post #15

> In a new class of attack on AI systems, troublemakers can carry out these environmental indirect prompt injection attacks to hijack decision-making processes. I have a coworker who brags about intentionally cutting off Waymos and robocars when he sees them on the road. He is "anti-clanker" and views it as civil disobedience to rise up against "machines taking over." Some mornings he comes in all hyped up talking ab…

Road rage against the machine?

Re: Autonomous cars, drones cheerfully obey prompt injection by road sign

#108

Post by Throaway1982 »

SR2Z wrote: post #71
ordersofmag wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure the Luddites judged the threat the machines posed to their livelihood to be a greater damage than their employer's loss of their machines. So for them, it was an easy justification. The idea that dollar value encapsulates the only correct way to value things in the world is a pretty scary viewpoint (as your reference to the value of saving a life illustrates).

One one side there were the luddites and their livelihoods; tens of thousands of people. On the other side, there were cheap textiles for EVERYONE - plus some profits for the manufacturers. They might have been fighting to save their livelihoods, but their self-interest put them up against the entire world, not just their employers.

The Luddites were trying to stop themselves & their families from starving to death. The factory owners were only interested in profit. It isn't like the Luddites were given a generous re-training package and they turned it down. They had 0 rights, I mean that literally: 0.

Re: Autonomous cars, drones cheerfully obey prompt injection by road sign

#109

Post by Throaway1982 »

theamk wrote: post #73
skybrian wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does cutting off a Waymo help with any of that?

Your general luddite argument - preserve way-of-life of the small group at the expense of a larger group. In this particular case: for many people, Waymo provides a better service (clean, safer driving, etc..) than Uber or Lyft. This threatens livelihood of human Uber/Lyft drivers. If you sympathize with human Uber/Lyft drivers, and don't care about Waymo users, you want to make Waymo worse, hoping that the people wi…

This is such a bad characterization of the Luddite cause, and it's not even close to what they stood for or why they were spurred to action. Please do a bit of actual educating yourself on the Luddites.

Re: Autonomous cars, drones cheerfully obey prompt injection by road sign

#110

Post by Throaway1982 »

bigbadfeline wrote: post #41
randycupertino wrote: post #15

> In a new class of attack on AI systems, troublemakers can carry out these environmental indirect prompt injection attacks to hijack decision-making processes. I have a coworker who brags about intentionally cutting off Waymos and robocars when he sees them on the road. He is "anti-clanker" and views it as civil disobedience to rise up against "machines taking over." Some mornings he comes in all hyped up talking ab…

These drones have cameras, it's a matter of time before they "share" footage... basically becoming robo-cops, traffic edition - this might be of interest to your coworker.

He's probably ok with being the 1st martyr in the (valid) war against automatic-car-surveillance.
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