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Outlawed by Amazon DRM

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Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#101

Post by chris_wot »

oliwarner wrote: post #94
techsupporter wrote: post #56

Tangentially related, I am getting very, very tired of "customer service" departments using phrases like: "While we are unable to provide detailed information on how we link related accounts, please know that we have reviewed your account on the basis of the information provided and regret to inform you that it will not be reopened." This happens more frequently: Google says this all the time, based on posts here; Am…

Companies have privacy obligations. If they inaccurately link you to a fraudulent user and then tell you all the activity of that fraudulent user, they've probably just broken the law. That's a specific example where it might not be legal but I agree that this is widespread and there are lots of things in the real world where it would be fine to tell you, but they choose not to. In my experience this is to protect in…

A bit of catch 22 really. If they have inaccurately linked you with a fraudulent user and they accuse you of having committed fraud, they've just defamed your character.

If they were in the U.S. I'd be suggesting they lawyer up.

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#102

Post by andyjohnson0 »

js951534 wrote: post #59
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a pity that legalreads doesn't provide a way for me to see what they offer without first giving them access to my google account.

See the search bar at top of page that says "Search Books" thats a sample of the underlying database, you dont need to login to download books from this site, tho loging in gives more choice, use a disposable account anyways not your primary its a good security precaution anyways

I tried that and it asked me for my account details. It doesn't seem to be doing that now, though.

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#103

Post by DanBC »

dendory wrote: post #91

I'm a comic book fan, and a while back I started buying comics digitally from Dark Horse's digital store. Being also a HN reader, I'm very aware of what these companies can do, how accounts are closed without notice, wiping all your previous purchases, etc. So obviously as my spending went up in that one digital store, I became concerned of what could happen, especially reading their FAQ that clearly state all my mon…

Bypassing a technical copyright protection mechanism is a criminal offence, isn't it?

I agree that it's the sane thing to do. "Back up your documents" is important advice.

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#104

Post by mercurial »

mysterywhiteboy wrote: post #77
rmc wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I was also thinking of the Data Protection Acts here aswell. Whether she would get the information she is interested in, i.e. which account she is linked to, is another question. Well if they don't provide it, they are breaking the law, so you can complain about them again that way.

Unfortunately there are a number of circumstances where they are within their rights to withhold information. One of these situations is where the information relates to another individual. If information is withheld she my be able to infer that the offending account to which she is linked is held by someone else - though the identity of the account holder would understandably not be given.

This logic doesn't hold. Either Amazon is certain her account is operated by the same character guilty of whatever violations of policy behind the "linked account", in which case they're not disclosing any additional information, or they're not, in which case they know they might be punishing somebody innocent (the "Let God sort'em out" customer policy).

In any case, it sounds straight out of Kafka: you're punished, but you don't know what crime you are supposed to have committed.

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#105

Post by rmc »

hobbes wrote: post #84
rmc wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laws trump contracts. You cannot sign away what the law says happened. It's just a matter of convincing a judge that you bought the book. They Amazon's T&Cs are irrelevant.

And, how, pray tell, will you convince the judge of that? You didn't purchase a book, as the T&C's make clear - the contents of which you agreed to by entering into the said agreement. You paid applicable fees to enter into an agreement to view digital content. Nothing more. There was no purchase of a book. Where's your evidence to the contrary?

You did purchase the book. It says "Buy" on the website.

Amazon: "Would you like to Buy this book for your Kindle?"

Customer: "Yes" click

Looks like a sale to me. They don't use the word "Rent" or "Borrow". You "buy" it.

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#106

Post by pja »

davidw wrote: post #95
dendory wrote: post #91

I'm a comic book fan, and a while back I started buying comics digitally from Dark Horse's digital store. Being also a HN reader, I'm very aware of what these companies can do, how accounts are closed without notice, wiping all your previous purchases, etc. So obviously as my spending went up in that one digital store, I became concerned of what could happen, especially reading their FAQ that clearly state all my mon…

I wonder how difficult it'd be to create an end-user app... User plugs Kindle into the computer, user runs app, app backs up user's books, free from DRM. I guess people could use it to pirate as well, but c'est la vie.

It's been done.

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#107

Post by oliwarner »

User pays money for something. Company withdraws products without notice and deliberately harms the user's device. Yes this is awful but the solution is as simple as it's always been:

1. Complain. Keep complaining all the way to the top.

2. Sue. If complaining doesn't get you want you've paid for (or your money back, inc the Kindle you now can't use), you've just been robbed and you need to take legal action. You might think you're under a billion and five EULAs but when challenged, courts seem to side with the user when the EULAs attempt to restrict rights that they're not allowed to impinge upon. There are various sales laws that are protected well beyond the words of an EULA.

If you don't do anything about it, you make it worse for everybody else because > thinks they can get away with it now.

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#108

Post by jiggy2011 »

wtrk wrote: post #20
pwg wrote: post #6

This post really brings into focus just how right Richard Stallman was when he penned "The Right to Read": http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html

Indeed. But don't expect the sort of person whose battle cry w/re to RS is "But he's so unkempt!" to acknowledge that he tends to be correct.

Do you think that if stallman cut his hair and put on a suit his message would be better received?

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#109

Post by oliwarner »

chris_wot wrote: post #101
oliwarner wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies have privacy obligations. If they inaccurately link you to a fraudulent user and then tell you all the activity of that fraudulent user, they've probably just broken the law. That's a specific example where it might not be legal but I agree that this is widespread and there are lots of things in the real world where it would be fine to tell you, but they choose not to. In my experience this is to protect in…

A bit of catch 22 really. If they have inaccurately linked you with a fraudulent user and they accuse you of having committed fraud, they've just defamed your character. If they were in the U.S. I'd be suggesting they lawyer up.

Defamy wouldn't apply as it's a private relationship.

They're not broadcasting to the world that they think you're a con, they're just telling you... Which is fine.

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#110

Post by pja »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #33

Surely this is what a small claims court could be used for? I haven't read the Amazon TOS but is it really as simple as "you rent this book for as long as we feel like and we can revoke it for no reason"? In which case I would be somewhat surprised if this really held up in a court, for example what happens if you buy a book and they immediately decide to revoke the license 1 second after purchase?

Surely this is what a small claims court could be used for?

In principle, possibly. It's a bit difficult to sue if you live in Norway & have been buying from Amazon US though: your costs will exceed any potential return very quickly!

(I'm assuming that filing a small claims suit remotely is either not possible or not effective here of course.)

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