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How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

nytimes.com

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Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#101

Post by text0404 »

mothballed wrote: post #42
SetTheorist wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are explicitly saying that you feel more in common with Taliban or Tren De Aragua than with someone who wishes to exercise their Constitutionally protected right to peacefully protest against unlawful actions by agents of the government? Also, I am confused why you think that allegedly spitting and/or kicking out lights is a justification for execution.

I understand what they mean. Taliban, the people at the top are acting in a calculated and rational manner. That is why the US overthrew the Taliban to be replaced by the Taliban. They're not morons, and they are not impulsive at least at a high level. They are cold and calculated and know how to use calculated violence and appeal to the populace. You may dislike this is the case but with Taliban I feel this is indis…

The point is that you fight against injustice even in the face of state violence. Every movement that is a threat to existing power structures faces violence. Take a look at the labor movement in the US, the civil rights movement in the US, the anti-war movement in the US.

> Malcom X and MLK both had their followings. People like Pretti, never will.

The new movement is decentralized and doesn't rely on figureheads.

Also, you should read the news today if you think Pretti's death was in vain: https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=general%20strike&tbm=n...

You've offered a lot of criticism - what do you think the solution is?

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#102

Post by charlysl »

zzzeek wrote: post #99
Herring wrote: post #79

The problem with these threads is everybody wants to complain about Trump, but nobody wants to talk about policies that actually help buffer against the far-right. Eg implementing robust safety nets and low inequality, to reduce status anxiety and grievance. How many of you software engineers want to sign up for European-style welfare states and pay for them with high taxes? It's basically tragedy of the commons. htt…

laws need to be enforced. that's it. 90% of trump horror goes away with just that simple thing

What happened to enforcing the law on those who assaulted the Capitol?

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#104

Post by cmxch »

Herring wrote: post #79

The problem with these threads is everybody wants to complain about Trump, but nobody wants to talk about policies that actually help buffer against the far-right. Eg implementing robust safety nets and low inequality, to reduce status anxiety and grievance. How many of you software engineers want to sign up for European-style welfare states and pay for them with high taxes? It's basically tragedy of the commons. htt…

If you want to bring in something from the overall European region, Switzerland would be a more appropriate model. Instead of trying to implement constitutionally impossible rules and mandates, work with a model that is more realistic to US policies and expectations.

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#105

Post by mindslight »

throwawayqqq11 wrote: post #100
mindslight wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's mostly the same party, politicians, and cheerleaders who have been dismantling those safety nets, while supporting offshoring and massive handouts to the rich (via the asset bubble). The economic issues driving the destructionist anger are themselves the results of primarily Republican policies becoming un-ignoreable. But rather than any sort of self reflection they're just turning the blame to new scapegoats. T…

As a leftist, i can tell you that any kind of unchecked capitalism or inequality threatens democracies and their constitutions in the long run. The contradiction of private vs public interests surfaces when growth/ROI demands become harder to achieve. Marx predicted it as diminishing profit rates [0]. The decades of lowering taxes for rich individuals and corporations led to the present budget pressure on institution…

> As a leftist, i can tell you that any kind of unchecked capitalism or inequality threatens democracies and their constitutions in the long run.

And as a libertarian I can emphatically agree. A foundation of libertarianism is freedom of individual choice, and when a significant number of are economically disenfranchised such that they face economic coercion while simply trying to exist, it completely undermines that foundation. And looking at the structure from the top, completely ineffective anti-trust enforcement has made it so there aren't even many choices to choose from.

> The decades of lowering taxes for rich individuals and corporations lead to the [pressing] budget pressure on institutions, civic decay and agitated uninformed voters

I agree with your description of this trend, as well. I learned long ago that it's not enough to merely push in one direction and assume any results will be positive by construction. Rather you must look at what actually stands to be achieved, in order to avoid merely being a patsy for entrenched interests.

I do question why diminishing profit rates are relevant though. Even if profits had generally been going up, wouldn't the desire for even more wealth lead to the same lobbying / looting pattern?

I haven't really studied Marx though. A quick reading of your link, and trying to restate what I took away in my own terms: As labor becomes less important to capital, then capital is less inclined to invest in the labor pool? That does basically fit the overall trends.

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#106

Post by kreetx »

mindslight wrote: post #97
kreetx wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at the video, then the woman turns the front of the car towards the agent, who comes from the other side. Do you mean that he knew the movement that was going to happen and risked his life to do that. Would you say the woman was in her right to attempt a getaway?

"As I said, you're starting at a point where the ICE agent had already set up his pretext to execute her." Sitting in front of a screen and Monday-morning-quarterbacking, it's easy to say that driving off was wrong. But nobody really knows what they themselves would do in a fight or flight situation when being assaulted by a group of masked men, especially when one of the group is aggressive enough that they are inde…

If you're afraid of ICE agents, what are you doing in the area anyway?

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#107

Post by mindslight »

zzzeek wrote: post #99
Herring wrote: post #79

The problem with these threads is everybody wants to complain about Trump, but nobody wants to talk about policies that actually help buffer against the far-right. Eg implementing robust safety nets and low inequality, to reduce status anxiety and grievance. How many of you software engineers want to sign up for European-style welfare states and pay for them with high taxes? It's basically tragedy of the commons. htt…

laws need to be enforced. that's it. 90% of trump horror goes away with just that simple thing

Sure, but how do the laws get enforced when law enforcement itself has gone rogue? State governors can't deploy their branches of the National Guard to restore Constitutional law and order without risking that the corrupt federal executive will end up taking control of those as well.

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#108

Post by yongjik »

charlysl wrote: post #102
zzzeek wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

laws need to be enforced. that's it. 90% of trump horror goes away with just that simple thing

What happened to enforcing the law on those who assaulted the Capitol?

Yeah exactly, if the US actually took its rule of law seriously, we won't be having this Trump problems because he'd be in prison for the rest of his life.

Biden really dropped the ball here.

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#109

Post by mindslight »

kreetx wrote: post #106
mindslight wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"As I said, you're starting at a point where the ICE agent had already set up his pretext to execute her." Sitting in front of a screen and Monday-morning-quarterbacking, it's easy to say that driving off was wrong. But nobody really knows what they themselves would do in a fight or flight situation when being assaulted by a group of masked men, especially when one of the group is aggressive enough that they are inde…

If you're afraid of ICE agents, what are you doing in the area anyway?

Wut? You do realize that being in the presence of law enforcement officers is much different than the situation of being actively assaulted by them, right?

For example, the other day I interacted with a few police officers in person by virtue of being tangentially-involved with a car crash. I laughed and joked with them, then went about my business. But if they had instead been surrounding me with guns drawn, it would have taken me the rest of the day to come down from that.

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#110

Post by omikun »

kreetx wrote: post #80
mindslight wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't start at the point the ICE agent had already set up his pretext to execute her. That's equivalent to equating legality with morality, which doesn't work when talking about what ought to be. Rather you have to examine the entire situation, which was an extreme escalation by ICE in response to what was essentially protesting.

There was no pretext to execute her. It's when she started driving (even spun the wheels I think) towards the officer were shots fired. In your mind, does police getaway equate with protesting now?

In your mind, does getting away from the police equate to getting shot? In the head? Three times?

Even police chiefs have called out how incompetent that agent was.

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