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ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

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Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#101

Post by sgarland »

rudhdb773b wrote: post #74
torben-friis wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would non state actors be any less scary? Large companies colluding to reject potential hires due to surveilled ideology, sexual preferences of people in the closet filtered to scammers, hate groups learning about the family members of activists, insurance rejecting customers based on illegally obtained data… the list of risks is giant.

> Why would non state actors be any less scary? Non-state actors can't easily use violence to throw me in jail.

They seem to be able to induce whistleblowers to off themselves at a shocking rate, though.

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#102

Post by elric »

petterroea wrote: post #6

Private surveillance is so much more scary than regular government surveillance because they have every incentive to invent new ways of surveilling you that they then try to sell to governments, or private actors who want to influence the world. It's like classic government surveillance but every company you interacted with and every app you use may at some point turn on you and use your data against you, just becaus…

> We are really seeing the fears of data collection from the 2000s and 2010s come to fruition as privatized surveillance now. Cambridge analytica should have been the warning shot but it wasn't enough.

I remember protesting against data retention laws in the early 2000s. People thought we were nuts for using historical examples about the Nazis abusing all kinds of records to hunt down Jews. History was never going to repeat itself that way.

Until it did.

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#103

Post by JumpCrisscross »

throw0101a wrote: post #54
hardreality wrote: post #21

[flagged]

> Illegal immigrants must be deported. There are literally 20x more illegal immigrants in Texas as compared to Minnesota: * https://www.migrationpolicy.org/data/unauthorized-immigrant-... * https://www.migrationpolicy.org/data/unauthorized-immigrant-... There are 12x more in Florida: * https://www.migrationpolicy.org/data/unauthorized-immigrant-... If you want to go fishing, the Mojave Desert is not the place you sho…

I live in Wyoming. ICE came through once, their helicopters woke up a bunch of folks’ pets, the governor told them to stop and they haven’t been back since. This is absolutely about establishing a corps of brown shirts. Not deporting illegal immigrants.

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#104

Post by phatfish »

i80and wrote: post #14
londons_explore wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Private surveillance is so much more scary than regular government surveillance because ... ... because the private sector tends to be far more competent and able to get shit done fast and effectively.

I really haven't found this to be true at all ; corporations are just as dysfunctional or worse. It's more that there's fewer legal protections, so private surveillance is a great way for governments to launder the illegal things they want to do.

The dysfunction on the corporate side just gets swept under the rug, only in extreme cases does it get brought to the attention of the public.

Governments have to operate in a more open manner (at least those with a reasonable amount of democratic accountability do). So the dysfunction is made public more often, and likely used over decades for political point-scoring.

It's similar to open source development. Everyone moans that open source projects are full of infighting slowing down development compared to closed projects.

Then, as soon as someone comes along and gets shit done like with systemd or the Linux kernel it's the opposite complaint. The doer is now a wannabe dictator ordering everyone about.

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#105

Post by self_awareness »

As a non-American, I'm just wondering, why won't you help these people get legal citizenship status since it's clear as day most people want them in?

Why won't you protest against current citizenship rules, since it's clear you want them to be changed?

edit: I see it's just a simple "f** ice" and "you need to go" case. I'll show myself out

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#106

Post by JumpCrisscross »

elric wrote: post #102
petterroea wrote: post #6

Private surveillance is so much more scary than regular government surveillance because they have every incentive to invent new ways of surveilling you that they then try to sell to governments, or private actors who want to influence the world. It's like classic government surveillance but every company you interacted with and every app you use may at some point turn on you and use your data against you, just becaus…

> We are really seeing the fears of data collection from the 2000s and 2010s come to fruition as privatized surveillance now. Cambridge analytica should have been the warning shot but it wasn't enough. I remember protesting against data retention laws in the early 2000s. People thought we were nuts for using historical examples about the Nazis abusing all kinds of records to hunt down Jews. History was never going to…

> People thought we were nuts for using historical examples about the Nazis abusing all kinds of records to hunt down Jews

What data-retention issues do you have with HHS having patients’ home addresses?

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#107

Post by JumpCrisscross »

danesparza wrote: post #83
petterroea wrote: post #6

Private surveillance is so much more scary than regular government surveillance because they have every incentive to invent new ways of surveilling you that they then try to sell to governments, or private actors who want to influence the world. It's like classic government surveillance but every company you interacted with and every app you use may at some point turn on you and use your data against you, just becaus…

And then governments use this data, but can wash their hands of it saying "we didn't collect it"

> then governments use this data, but can wash their hands of it saying "we didn't collect it"

These are CMMS and HHS data. The government literally collected it. On government forms.

This thread is Exhibit A for how the tech-privacy community so often trips itself up. We have abuse of government data at hand. It’s clear. It’s sharp. Nobody denies the government has the data, how they got the data or how they’re using it.

So instead we go into parallel construction and advertising dragnets and a bunch of stuff that isn’t clear cut, isn’t relevant, but is someone’s bogeybear that has to be scratched.

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#108

Post by TSiege »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #71
netsharc wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, power to execute laws is given to the executive branch. Power of the executive is bestowed upon... one person. From https://archive.is/E6zXj : > But, as Chayes studied the graft of the Karzai government, she concluded that it was anything but benign. Many in the political élite were not merely stealing reconstruction money but expropriating farmland from other Afghans. Warlords could hoodwink U.S. special force…

> Power of the executive is bestowed upon... one person This is the unitary executive theory. It’s a novel Constitutional theory that even this SCOTUS seems reluctant to honestly embrace.

They are not reluctant

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#109

Post by andruby »

gorgoiler wrote: post #79
lrvick wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has become quite clear in recent months that the the rule of law will not be enforced on the federal government or their allies.

I heard a law professor on NPR a few nights back saying how, at the executive level, the rule of law is dead and has been for some time. They cited Jan 6 but recognised how politically divisive that example was, so also gave the failure to enforce the TikTok ban as a less partisan example. If you take your hands off the wheel you can go a surprisingly long time before you crash. This hands-free period will have to co…

I agree.

> This hands-free period will have to come to an end at some point

What would that mean? Do you expect the government to put their hands back on the wheel, does the US "crash" and become a dictatorship and/or does it lead to WW3?

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#110

Post by JumpCrisscross »

api wrote: post #99
petterroea wrote: post #6

Private surveillance is so much more scary than regular government surveillance because they have every incentive to invent new ways of surveilling you that they then try to sell to governments, or private actors who want to influence the world. It's like classic government surveillance but every company you interacted with and every app you use may at some point turn on you and use your data against you, just becaus…

Starting way back in the early 2000s I was predicting all this and was consistently called nuts and paranoid. In retrospect what has actually happened with mass surveillance has been far worse than what the most unhinged conspiracy nut on shortwave radio or some crazy end times Geocities web site was predicting back then. The predictions of the conspiracy nuts were conservative. The big thing everyone got wrong was t…

> I was predicting all this

You predicted HHS and CMMS having the address patients give them on HHS and CMMS forms? Like, sure. Good job. I predict the IRS has my address.

> This is a devil's bargain

Medicare (and the IRS) having your home address is a devil’s bargain?

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